Bull Rush-What's the Point?

[Sado]

What is the point of a Bull Rush? It leaves you open for attacks of opportunity and possible falling prone, and all it does is move the enemy over one square if you suceed. It doesn't knock the enemy down or stagger him or anything, it just moves him. What's the point, aside from the rare occasion when the enemy is between you and someplace you need to get to and there is no way around? Does it have any practical uses as a standard combat tactic?

 

[DanMcS]

Bull Rush is more rarely useful than trip or disarm, but when it's good, it is really good.

Cliffs, rope bridges over chasms, high towers, basically anything you can fall off of, is a prime target for bull rush.

One of the scariest combats I've played ever took place on top of a roof, with an enemy who kept trying to bull rush us off of it. We were beat up already, and it was high, so the fall would have killed us. We ended up taking him down with one character at 0 hps providing flanking for the rogue, who was standing at the edge of the roof to get the flank and the sneak attack. Had the bad man had another turn, he would have bull rushed the rogue off the roof and then found the 0hp character easy prey.

 

[Palagast]

I don't like the action either... never used it.
There's one situation I could imagine it being used though; if your friend the spellcaster is being bashed to bits by a BBEG, you can bull rush the BBEG away from him.

 

[shilsen]

As DanMcS said, Bull Rush is a very situational tactic. Besides the pleasure of bull-rushing someone past a number of your allies as they all take AoOs on him, it can be very satisfying to shove someone off a cliff, may be needed to move a single enemy out of a strong tactical position (I always figured Horatius would have been screwed if any of the Tuscans had bull-rushed him successfully ), etc.

 

[argo]

First off, note that you cam push the defender an additional 5 feet for every 5 points by which you beat his check.

As for uses, the most common is to push your opponent off a cliff/into a pool of lava/vat of acid/etc. But other common uses include: clearing a path for another character to move through (espically if the defender is holding a doorway or the like), getting an opponent away from a weaker ally so that ally can cast a spell/flee/etc in saftey, pushing an opponent into a corner so he can't run or is within reach of a stronger ally with excellent full round attacks, pushing the defender into/out of the area of effect of some magic spell or other.

Basiclly its use is highly situational and relies on good teamwork but on those rare occasions that it comes up it can be a real lifesaver.

Hope that helps.

 

[Sado]

Good stuff, guys. When I fight, my tactics are usually limited to "get beside bad guy, attack until he's dead (or I have to retreat), repeat on next bad guy (if able)". I've been studying up on all those special combat moves like Bull Rush, Grapple, Sunder, etc, thinking of trying to incorporate them a little more. It seems to me like most of them are weighted against the attacker, though, which is part of the reason why I haven't given them much thought.

I totally overlooked being able to push them off of/into stuff. Great tips here. Thanks, and keep 'em coming if you got 'em.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Sado,

Do not underestimate the effectiveness of Grappling. Most humanoids are about 10% as dangerous once in a grapple. Even with the rules stacked against the attacker, it is often a devastating tactical "queen sacrifice" to temporarily take one NPC & one PC out of the picture.

Using a grapple against Wizard/Sorceror is obvious but even savvy players often overlook the option in the glee to poke one with their sword. Where I have seen surprisingly impressive results is against opposing Clerics. An opposing Cleric is often wearing heavy armor, shield, and buffed with Protection vs. Good and maybe Prayer or Magic Vestment. They are not always shy about going toe-to-toe. But Grappling bypasses most of that armor and all those lovely spells become irrelevent. Once his buddies are cleared out or chased away he is trivially killed by ganging up.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Bull Rush, like most of the tactical manuevers is something that is useful in some situations but not others.

Bull Rush is useful for forcing foes into environmental hazards. If there's a cliff, a furnace, a pit of lava, a pit trap, etc, Bull Rushing the foe into it is a good idea.

Bull Rush is also useful for forcing foes into tactically poor positions or removing them from tactically advantageous positions. If your foe is holding the doorway to a large room so that your party can only attack him one at a time, you can bull rush him back to make space for your allies to enter the room. In the same way, if your foe is one or two spaces away from being prone and adjacent to your entire party, you can try to bull rush him into that position. The extra damage from all of your party making full attacks instead of move+single attacks may be more than the damage you would gain by making a single attack.

There are a variety of situations where other manuevers (trip, disarm, grapple, etc) would be useful and they are similarly situational (though some, like Overrun, are useful in far fewer situations than others).

A good way of thinking of special manuevers is to think of the old playwright's axiom: if there's a gun over the mantlepiece in act 1, it will go off before the end of the play. Applying that to the gaming situation, if there is a a vat of acid in the battlefield, ask yourself if you can bull rush someone into it or dump it on their head. If there's a cliff, think if you can find a way to make the other guy fall off. If there's a table, think if you can jump on top of it to gain a height bonus. Etc.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Maybe I missed it in someone else's reply, but the burly type can always bull rush an enemy into a space so that the sneaky type (who is delaying or readying or just hasn't had his turn yet) can end up in a flanking position and get a sneak attack.

If you have to move anyway, and won't get more than one attack, and your handy, dandy party rogue is nearby, bull rushing an enemy into a sneak attack can be far better than getting one swipe with a sword.

I suppose using bull rush to push someone into a dimension door could be fun too.

Dave

 

[FireLance]

Bull Rush can be a good way of stopping an opponent from CDGing an ally.