Building a wrestler

[Herzog]

Our regular 3.5 campaign is going on a small hiatus while our DM is visiting the Himalaya's.
One of the players has offered to do a few sessions, and since I had voiced interest in the Pathfinder rules, suggested to use that as the ruleset.

We are playing 'heroes' in ancient (mythical) Greece. This means humans only (I guess Minotaur or Medusa would be possible, but since those were singular entities in the myths not really an option)
Arcane classes except for Bard are banned.
Cleric is allowed, but Druid is not, and he has a replacement class for the Paladin. (which I'm not too interested in)

He has suggested to pick something to excel in (swimming, discuss throwing, running, etc) and after some careful thought I've picked wrestling.

We have 5 levels to spent, and I'm considering some kind of Rogue/Monk build for that. (dealing sneak attack damage after pinning my opponent)
However, because of my inexperience with the PF rules I'm not sure how to proceed.

Any suggestions welcome!

 

[Thanael]

Take a look at the Barbarian class and if you have the APG available at the Brutal Pugilist variant for it. (Both are also available at the d20pfsrd)

That's how i picture a herculean greek wrestler hero.

Oh and read this excellent 3.5 guide to Barbarians just to get into the mood for playing a Barbarian and getting a perspective about monk grapplers(*): Being Bane: A Guide to Cracking Small Men

*) Though i don't know how much PF has fixed this problem with the monk...

 

[nothingpoetic]

it seems to me the benefit of going brutal pugilist in terms of straight mechanics (half penalty for attack rolls while grappled) isn't as exciting as the scaling damage you could do with a monk.

Not sure if you could flurry while grappled, as the text of grappled says you can not do any action requiring both hands. A knee and a hand though... I don't know about that.

 

[Kaisoku]

Not sure if you could flurry while grappled, as the text of grappled says you can not do any action requiring both hands. A knee and a hand though... I don't know about that.

It's been confirmed by a developer of the game that you can:

Q: Can a monk do a Flurry of Blows during a grapple as it requires a full attack action?
A: (Jason Bulmahn 12/11/09) The RAW do allow the grappled to make a full attack action, assuming they can do so with only one hand. Since flurry does not require two hands to perform, a monk could flurry. Grappling is not always the best idea. Grappling a monk is one such example. I think folks need to remember that the grappled condition is not as severe as it once was. You are no longer draped all over the target. It is more like you got a hold on them, typically an arm (hence the restriction). The pinned condition is more of your greco-roman wrestling hold.

 

[Steel_Wind]

We build a monk/druid (Snake Shaman) wrestler in the Character Concept Workshop in Episode #008 of the cast. Turns out, the Order of the Viper is, in fact, one bad-ass grappler, indeed.

 

[Kaisoku]

*) Though i don't know how much PF has fixed this problem with the monk...

Monks have full BAB when doing their TWFing (flurry, so only the standard -2 for getting extra attacks), and their combat maneuver bonus. They are effectively a full BAB class when it comes to maneuvers and hitting people in a full attack (including during a grapple).

They also get Improved Grapple as a free feat if they want, though they will need to wait until 9th level to get Greater Grapple (their feat lists should have really be reworked after they made the "greater" feats).

The extra AC (wisdom and scaling bonus) applies to CMD as well, so they will likely have a stellar CMD.

Since you intend to go with kind of a brute, take-down approach, I'd suggest a Strength heavy build. Go with Strength primary, Wisdom secondary, and Dex and Con being about equal.
High strength means attack and damage and combat maneuver bonus. Wisdom means more Ki points, AC that applies at all times, and higher stunning fist DCs.

If you do go with Rogue levels for sneak attack damage during flanking/pinned situations, I'd say get a good 4 level base in Monk. This gives you the +10 movement, 1d8 unarmed strikes, +1 AC, the maneuvers based on your level instead of BAB, and the beginnings of your Ki pool.

_____

For an alternative though, simply go full out Fighter. Go with a Cestus (APG, 1d4 19-20/x2 weapon, piercing or bludgeoning), and tear into your foes. At third level you don't have a speed penalty in medium armor, and higher max Dex, letting you be an armored pugilist.
Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization will increase your damage by 3 at 5th level, which is similar to treating that 1d4 as 1d10 in average damage rolls.
Plus, a Cestus leaves your hands free, so you still skirt any penalties in grappling. Add in armor spikes to your armor and you can even go two weapon fighting with a cestus and spikes.
7 feats by 5th level means you can get your unarmed combat (Imp Unarmed Strike, Imp Grapple), your training stuff (weapon focus & specialization), and TWF stuff (TWF, Double Slice), and still have a feat leftover (Power Attack for more damage?). Hell, get Quickdraw and a Quickdraw shield for extra AC anytime you aren't in the middle of a grapple.
With less need for Wisdom or even Dexterity (can wear armor without being hampered much), you can really focus on Strength and Constitution to be an absolute brute.
Though I suggest getting something like this sucker to roll damage would make this more fun. d4's are 'meh' for rolling...

 

[pawsplay]

One option is Fighter (Savage Warrior) with Improved Unarmed Strike. You could get some really hideous maneuver bonuses.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, I've done some digging, and since I am now convinced monks do NOT get a flurry if they need to maintain a pin/grapple (but only when they are the defending party) I am back at square one, so to speak.

I want to build a grappler/wrestler.
The idea is to grapple, then pin an opponent, and then apply damage in the following rounds.

A rogue would be able to apply sneak attack damage to a pinned opponent, but a barbarian has a full Bab progression, and could apply extra strength.

I'm not too interested in defensive properties, just in getting as much damage as possible out of that single unarmed strike damage on a successful grapple check against a pinned opponent.

Again I ask: what would be a good build? Barbarian (Brutal Pugilist) 5? Or Rogue 5? Maybe a combination?
Maybe some feats that might help (other than Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple) ?