Bugbears as PCs balanced??

[doulos05]

I have a player who wants to play a Bugbear Ranger. Normally, I am very permissive when it comes to DMing, because I feel it's more fun for everyone involved when the players feel like they have a say in what's going on. But I really think that bugbear is unbalanced as a PC race, especially as dual bastard sword wielding ranger. Reading Alex319's thread on weapon balance has only confirmed this for me.

Changing the bastard sword damage to 6.5 (1d12) on his excel spreadsheet makes it's residual 1.17, nearly 3x higher than the Great Axe. My basic understanding is that severe deviation from 0 in that spreadsheet indicated broken. Positive equals broken in PCs favor, negative equals broken against PCs favor. Apologies to Alex319 if that's not how that spreadsheet works. My understanding of statistics stops well short of regression testing.

What are your thoughts about Bugbears in particular and MM PC Races in general? Are they balanced enough to run in a party? I'm leaning very heavily towards saying "no" this time, but I want to make sure I'm not over-reacting because I really want to say "yes" if it is indeed a reasonable request. He's even worked up a backstory (A big plus towards getting me to accept it). What do you guys think?

 

[Aservan]

I don't think it will be as bad as you think. I played a minotaur fighter and the 1d12 on bastard sword was nice but not that nice.

Predatory Eye sucks honestly. It is a d6 damage that takes a minor action to trigger and if you whiff it did nothing for the encounter. That means their encounter power is pretty bad. It is no fey step or dragon breath for sure.

Bugbears also have no other racial abilities. They don't have the equivalent to a +1 to hit while bloodied or even the elven wildstep ability.

The only reasons to even play them are the +2 to Str and Dex (great for fighters, rangers, and brutal scoundrels) & the over sized weapon thing. The intimidate bonus on a creature who will have at best a mediocre Cha is a whatever. +2 to stealth is good but no better then many other racial skill bonuses.

There are already several races that dovetail beautifully with certain classes. Eladrin wizards. Elven Bow Rangers. Dragonborn Paladins & Inspiring Warlords. Halfling Artful dodgers. Half elven Starlocks, etc.

He will be a ranger who deals a lot of damage. So long as you actually enforce the prejudice of the common people he will really suffer for his race. Make sure merchants close up shop when he comes calling. Have people not talk to him. As much as he will be a king in melee, he will suffer at other points. That's the trade off we make with one trick pony characters. My guess is that the player will snap and kill some offending merchant and then bad stuff will ensue. Either way it makes for some great role playing.

I am not a fan of those who want everything to run smooth. Captain Mal is entertaining because things never go smooth. His plans pretty much never work as intended. Lt your player play the bugbear but make him lonely.

 

[Engilbrand]

Make sure that he knows that, though. He has to know that that sort of prejudice will be there. If I asked a DM to play a race and he just said, "Sure. Not a problem." but then started hounding on me, I'd be pretty pissed. That would be ridiculous. If he alerted me to the fact that that race would have some specific problems, then I could make an informed choice.
If he doesn't know beforehand, it doesn't make for great roleplaying. It makes for crappy DMing.
Bugbears don't look all that great. You also have to remember that, at the moment, they don't have extra feats to take or other things geared towards them. Those are some of the benefits of the PHB races. Options.

 

[doulos05]

If he doesn't know beforehand, it doesn't make for great roleplaying. It makes for crappy DMing.
Bugbears don't look all that great. You also have to remember that, at the moment, they don't have extra feats to take or other things geared towards them. Those are some of the benefits of the PHB races. Options.

Good point, I'll point express that fact to him and see what he says. Thanks guys! Also, good point with the feats and relatively sucky encounter power.

 

[Stogoe]

ISo long as you actually enforce the prejudice of the common people he will really suffer for his race. Make sure merchants close up shop when he comes calling. Have people not talk to him. As much as he will be a king in melee, he will suffer at other points. That's the trade off we make with one trick pony characters. My guess is that the player will snap and kill some offending merchant and then bad stuff will ensue. Either way it makes for some great role playing.

That sort of attitude rubs me the wrong way. "Oh, yeah, sure, you can play a monster race. If you want to get shanked in the street by a mob with pitchforks." Why not just make the so-called "monster" race a normal part of civilization? You'll have fewer problems and less antagonism between DM and PC. It just seems to me that it's a punishment for differing in opinion from the DM on what's fun.

 

[darkadelphia]

That sort of attitude rubs me the wrong way. "Oh, yeah, sure, you can play a monster race. If you want to get shanked in the street by a mob with pitchforks." Why not just make the so-called "monster" race a normal part of civilization? You'll have fewer problems and less antagonism between DM and PC. It just seems to me that it's a punishment for differing in opinion from the DM on what's fun.

Different game worlds have different feels. In some groups/game worlds, it's fine for bugbears to walk down the street having a good time. With other groups/game worlds, it's not. Each group has their own way of handling it with different settings and that's just fine.

 

[Kaelkatar]

A DM shouldn't be forced to mold their world around the PCs in order to maximize the PCs fun. The DM needs to be having fun too, and one of the funnest parts of DMing is having total control over the environment and being able to conjure a unique world from your own imagination.

Most worlds view monsters as just that, monsters. The idea behind mosters is that some races are so far from civilized that based entirely on their race alone a PC with decent ethics can slay it without feeling guilt. This is a shortcut that allows DMs to create encounters that the PCs have no problem fighting without analyzing the ethics. A "monstrous" creature can slowly gain a society's trust by performing noble deeds or at the very least avoiding the stereotypes that make the race monstrous in the first place, but it should be slow and not perfect.

I would allow a person to play a bugbear, goblin, hobgoblin, or kobold in one of two scenarios, one the monster is good, has exhibited in the recent past a string of non-evil, non-chaotic actions that allow it to slowly gather reputation in a small region as a 'non-monstrous monster'. The locals would be split about 10%/50%/40% in such a manner that 10% still view it as a monster and would attempt to kill it given the opportunity, 50% view it with suspicion, assuming that it could easily be a ruse of civility, and 40% wholeheatedly beliving that the creature is a noble being. Regardless, until the character saves the world, life would be harder than being a "goodly race". The other option is having the monster be unaligned or evil and forcing the character to stay out of civilization, or entering only with a diguise capable of hiding them.

 

[Stogoe]

Different game worlds have different feels. In some groups/game worlds, it's fine for bugbears to walk down the street having a good time. With other groups/game worlds, it's not. Each group has their own way of handling it with different settings and that's just fine.

Well, sure, but it still seems like DM antagonism to allow a 'monstrous' PC and then kick him repeatedly because of his choice. I know I'd never do it.

 

[Mad Hamish]

Well, sure, but it still seems like DM antagonism to allow a 'monstrous' PC and then kick him repeatedly because of his choice. I know I'd never do it.

Not IMO.
If somebody wants to play a monstrous race that is typically an enemy of the local civilisation then the player shouldn't be surprised if the pc faces up to hostility.

How much hostility is open to question and will vary from place to place.
(A drow would probably get more hostility from elves than halflings with dwarves somewhere in between - and if get to somewhere that the drow raided for slaves last month then expect real problems)

 

[Kaelkatar]

Be blunt to them beforehand, It is completely rude to sigh off on bugbear as a race and then 10 minutes into the campaign have him chased off into the woods with torches. You need to sign off on bugbears while making sure that PCs know that bugbears are monsters, and that civilized life is tough for them.

In my summer campaign I told people that 'dragonborn' which I had renamed to fit the flavor of the world, were viewed with contempt by 80% of the common population, none of them decided to choose one and they went about playing. Had any of them chosen to play as one, they would have likely not been allowed to roam around towns without an escort to vouch for them, and possibly turned away from high class inns or such. This would hardly be PC discrimination as they were warned from day 1.