D&D 5E Bronze and Brass Dragons vs. Iron and Adamantine Dragons: Which do you prefer?

[QuietBrowser]

Just something inspired by a positive thread I read on 4e D&D's MM2... amongst the many, many changes that 4th edition made to its monsters was to take two of the traditional Metallic Dragons, the Bronze and the Brass, and to replace them in the core MM with two new ones; the Iron Dragon was a tough, forest & gully-dwelling brute of a metallic, sort of the metal dragon counterpart to the Chromatics' White Dragon, whilst the Adamantine Dragon was a deep-dwelling metallic of great power and rarity, superior even to the Gold Dragon in some ways, but focused on the Underdark. Both Bronze and Brass did return in the Metallic Draconomicon, but their place as "core metallics" was given over to Iron and Adamantine.


This was ultimately changed back in 5th edition, as was almost every other damn thing that 4e did, but it's left me wondering: what do people think of the two? Do people prefer one pair to the other? Or can you actually enjoy both of them equally? Would you rather have Bronze and Brass, or Iron and Adamantine?


Speaking personally... I'd rather have Iron and Adamantine, hand's down. The Bronze and the Brass have never made a lot of sense to me, nor have they ever interested me - they're freaking copper alloys, and it shows; visually and mechanically, they're more tweaks of the Copper Dragon than anything really unique. One was, I think, a really mercenary dragon eager to amass treasure, whilst the other was a petty warlord who claimed a just cause - I can't really remember them, so maybe that's only their 4e versions.


Iron and Adamantine, on the other hand... for starters, they just sound a better fit; I mean, which feels more organic to you? Adamantine/Gold/Silver/Copper/Iron? Or Gold/Silver/Copper/Bronze/Brass? The Iron Dragon filled a very unique role by being the Metallic's "savage", the embarrassing low-tier brute that the others try to pretend doesn't exist, ala the Chromatics with the White Dragon. The Adamantine Dragon, meanwhile, gives us a truly fantasy metal to base a dragon on, and is unique with its thunder blast breath weapon and its ultra-durable hide.


Anyway, that's my opinion. What's yours?

 

[dave2008]

I prefer the bronze and the brass because I grew up with them. I like the iron and adamantine as well and hope they get updated at some point. Of course, I couldn't care less what is "core."

 

[happyhermit]

If I had to pick (which I suppose they did considering how much complaining I have seen about the number of pages dragons get in the MM) then it would definitely be the Bronze and Brass. As presented in 5e they both fill useful roles for me, in terms of mechanics, world building and fluff, even in appearance really.

I don't have anything against Iron or Adamantine, except that they don't quite fit as well into the metallics imo. I would put them on par with Gem dragons and other varieties.

 

[Jester David]

Dragonlance got me into D&D and that setting will always be my first D&D love. Bronze and brass dragons have a big place in that setting.

Adding new dragons is fine. If you want iron and adamantine in your world that's cool. But it shouldn't come at the expense of something else.
Add to the story of D&D... don't take away.

 

[Dorian_Grey]

Iron not steel?! Sad! Steel dragons were fun in 2nd Edition. And if I remember correctly, Paladine from Dragonlance was described as a dragon of platinum which makes more sense for the whole gold, silver, etc. However, at the end of the day it's your world - do as you see fit. I've created worlds where there were only six dragons - and they were the pinnacle elemental creatures. Red dragons were fire, white were air, blue were water, and green were earth. Black dragons and silver dragons took on negative and positive energy. Two red dragons side by side could be LG and CE, just as fire can be good or evil depending on it's use (a torch to light the way versus a flaming arrow to burn out a keep). It was a fun campaign world.

 

[Parmandur]

Bronze and Brass, definitely: keeps the precious metal theme going. Add Iron and Admantine dragons out there, fine; but there are five core Metallics, and they ain't part of it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Just something inspired by a positive thread I read on 4e D&D's MM2... amongst the many, many changes that 4th edition made to its monsters was to take two of the traditional Metallic Dragons, the Bronze and the Brass, and to replace them in the core MM with two new ones; the Iron Dragon was a tough, forest & gully-dwelling brute of a metallic, sort of the metal dragon counterpart to the Chromatics' White Dragon, whilst the Adamantine Dragon was a deep-dwelling metallic of great power and rarity, superior even to the Gold Dragon in some ways, but focused on the Underdark. Both Bronze and Brass did return in the Metallic Draconomicon, but their place as "core metallics" was given over to Iron and Adamantine.

This was ultimately changed back in 5th edition, as was almost every other damn thing that 4e did, but it's left me wondering: what do people think of the two? Do people prefer one pair to the other? Or can you actually enjoy both of them equally? Would you rather have Bronze and Brass, or Iron and Adamantine?


Speaking personally... I'd rather have Iron and Adamantine, hand's down. The Bronze and the Brass have never made a lot of sense to me, nor have they ever interested me - they're freaking copper alloys, and it shows; visually and mechanically, they're more tweaks of the Copper Dragon than anything really unique. One was, I think, a really mercenary dragon eager to amass treasure, whilst the other was a petty warlord who claimed a just cause - I can't really remember them, so maybe that's only their 4e versions.


Iron and Adamantine, on the other hand... for starters, they just sound a better fit; I mean, which feels more organic to you? Adamantine/Gold/Silver/Copper/Iron? Or Gold/Silver/Copper/Bronze/Brass? The Iron Dragon filled a very unique role by being the Metallic's "savage", the embarrassing low-tier brute that the others try to pretend doesn't exist, ala the Chromatics with the White Dragon. The Adamantine Dragon, meanwhile, gives us a truly fantasy metal to base a dragon on, and is unique with its thunder blast breath weapon and its ultra-durable hide.

Anyway, that's my opinion. What's yours?

To me, there's really only six kinds of "core" dragons: red, blue, green, black, white, and gold. Silver gets an honorary mention because they're so common in Dragonlance stories, but those other metallics? Brass/bronze/copper? As far as I'm concerned, they might as well not even exist. I'd sooner include the neutral (gemstone, psionic) dragons like the Amethyst Dragons than a brass dragon in my games. (Also, in my games, all dragons* are the same species--personality and actions determine phenotype. A gold dragon could have a red dragon for a sibling and a white dragon as a kid, although the white dragon would have daddy/mommy issues and probably an inferiority complex. In theory a dragon could even change types, about as easily as a human being can go from obese to permanently skinny. Not easy, but possible with hard work and determination.)

So with that in mind: I have no problem with the idea of iron dragons and celestial dragons and stellar dragons and adamantine dragons and adamantium dragons, but none of them are iconic as far as I'm concerned.

* Well, except for maybe celestial and stellar dragons. They're so different from other dragons in scale that it might make sense for them to be an actual separate species. Besides, they don't have built-in alignments anyway, unlike the chromatic/metallic dragons.

 

[jayoungr]

Adamantine is the odd one out for me; it's not even a real element, unless you count it as a synonym for diamond, in which case it's not a metal.

 

[dave2008]

Adamantine is the odd one out for me; it's not even a real element, unless you count it as a synonym for diamond, in which case it's not a metal.

brass and bronze are alloys, not elements

 

[dave2008]

To me, there's really only six kinds of "core" dragons: red, blue, green, black, white, and gold. Silver gets an honorary mention because they're so common in Dragonlance stories, but those other metallics? Brass/bronze/copper?

Did you start with BECMI? Those where the only those six types in D&D, but 1e AD&D has always (since the 1e MM at leasts) had 5 chromatic, 5 metallic. + Tiamat (Chromatic) and Bahamut (Platinum) dragons.

brass, bronze, & copper get a bit a love in DL at least through the draconian incarnations. Though I seem to remember more than that as well, but it has been a long time since I read those books.