D&D 5E Book of lost spells

I gave my players copies of Frog God's Book of Lost Spells and told them to use it as inspiration for spells they'd like to research. (They looted a level 3 research library from a dead mentor.)

Anyway, the druid is excited by various elemental attack spells, and the bard is dying to learn Heroic Inspiration (which is kind of funny given that he has yet to expend an inspiration dice afaik). I'm going to set research DCs based on power, with more efficient spells having higher DCs, e.g. Blade Song takes three successful weekly DC 15 checks in a row (each week costs 300 gp because it's a third level spell). Another more average spell might only be DC 13.

In short, my players love the book. How about y'all? Any favorite spells from the book?
 

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I honestly haven't had a chance to pick it up, but the party sorc has asked me about it. I may have been a bit quick to say "no" but I wanted to wait until some wiser minds had taken a look through it to help me know what to keep an eye on as far as potentially disruptive or imbalanced spells. What's been your take on the balance?
 

I really like the book and spells. There are a few balance issues for very few spells, but overall it seems solid. It is a good thing some spells seem really good since that means they are pushing the envelope; the alternative is a bunch of underpowered spells that no one wants to use.

As a DM, I have used it to help seed some odd spell casters to give them unusual effects. For example, the group fought a coven of sea hags recently, so it really made them scary since what they could do was really unknown. Spells like Hard Water Blast and Wall of Water add a nice exotic feel.

There was a long thread when it was first announced which discussed this a bit more:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?425453-Book-of-Lost-Spells-On-Sale-Now
 
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I honestly haven't had a chance to pick it up, but the party sorc has asked me about it. I may have been a bit quick to say "no" but I wanted to wait until some wiser minds had taken a look through it to help me know what to keep an eye on as far as potentially disruptive or imbalanced spells. What's been your take on the balance?

Sorry, I've been out of town and haven't had a chance to type at a real keyboard, so this response got delayed.

Balance is generally comparable to the PHB: there are awesome spells and lame spells. E.g. Air of Nobility is a 3rd level spell which is worse in every way than the PHB 2nd level spell Enhance Ability; we'll say this is kind of like PHB's Witch Bolt. On the other hand, Death Bringer (8th level) can potentially kill every sleeping creature within a 1-mile radius, which is totally rad and about as cool as the PHB's Magic Jar (which can permanently turn a weak and sickly 11th level Necromancer into a robust 135 HP Wearbear who is immune to nonmagical weapons). And then there is at least one brokenly-good spell (Iron Core) which I would nerf in play, just as I've nerfed PHB's Simulacrum. (AD&D-style, simulacrums in my game have only 40-60% of the skills/knowledge/levels of the original, instead of 5E's "full levels but cannot regain spell slots"; however I do allow simulacrums of anything. My players have a scroll of Simulacrum actually but I bet they'll hang on to it indefinitely instead of ever actually using it.)

So anyway, balance IMO is well-done. There are a lot of spells that make me sit back and think, "Wow, that's a cool idea." (All the warlock voodoo spells for instance, like Twig Torture.) Spells like Transparent Steel and Iron Body can permanently alter certain creatures/spells in beneficial ways, which is sort of against the 5E paradigm but sort of not (PHB's Awaken and True Polymorph do the same thing). Since I like that flavor of magic and am used to it from AD&D, I am fine with spells like that IMC--or at least the potential for such spells. As mentioned above, I don't actually allow my players to freely choose those spells. I've handed out a few spells from Lost Spells in treasure and have encouraged my players to spell research, but I don't want them taking it for granted that they can just learn Umbral Images (3rd level version of Mirror Image) when they level up. That's mostly for flavor reasons ("lost spells" are lost) but I also want there to be a cost associated with the good spells, and that cost will be "harder to research." It gives me finer control than a simple binary yes/no.

That's also my explanation BTW for why Fireball is better than most other 3rd level attack spells. Somebody once upon a time put a lot of effort into researching a 3rd level AoE spell with high damage, good range (for a spell), low cost, and a large area of effect targetting a save which is generally weak. It's about as powerful as an average 4th or maybe even 5th level spell (Cone of Cold), but it's 3rd level because somebody wrote it very efficiently, and it was so good that it became very popular and well-known.
 

Sorry, I've been out of town and haven't had a chance to type at a real keyboard, so this response got delayed.

No worries. This is a great writeup, I'll pick up the book today since I trust your analysis more than most on these boards.

That's also my explanation BTW for why Fireball is better than most other 3rd level attack spells. Somebody once upon a time put a lot of effort into researching a 3rd level AoE spell with high damage, good range (for a spell), low cost, and a large area of effect targetting a save which is generally weak. It's about as powerful as an average 4th or maybe even 5th level spell (Cone of Cold), but it's 3rd level because somebody wrote it very efficiently, and it was so good that it became very popular and well-known.

I've seen you mention this before and I really like it. Have you codified your parameters for evaluating the efficiency (and therefore, under your system, difficulty of research) of spells? If so, I'd be very interested in seeing it. Based on what you're saying, it's a combination of the parameters in the info block (casting time, range, cost, aoe) as well as the saving throw targeted. I'm sure the element of the damage, concentration requirements and others, would be major factors.

If not, I may need to put together my own "formula" for things like this. It might be more useful to me than the guidelines in the DMG.
 

I haven't codified it, and to be honest I am still getting used to the 5E power scale and am likely to make some bad calls early on. Back in AD&D I think I had a more formalized system based on picking some iconic spells for each level and just comparing a new spell to those to find "effective level", and setting research difficulty based on differences between effective level and spell level... but in 5E I'm currently just eyeballing it. The one hard and fast rule I have already is that researching an average spell of level N will take N consecutive successful DC (10 + N) Arcana checks, and each check requires one week of research with a level N spell library (costing N^2 * 1000 gold pieces) and expends N * 100 gold on research materials. I've codified that mostly for the players' sake so they can have some predictability but I haven't yet explored the implications of the math. I think for right now I'd probably guesstimate that each added "effective level" should be about +4 to DC, so re-researching Fireball would probably be DC 19 or 21 instead of DC 13, but Cone of Cold would just be a flat DC 15.

I hope you enjoy the book as much I as do!
 

BTW, I just noticed the Spiteful Images spell and I want to say, Merrick, that spell is rad! I have no idea where it falls on the power scale, but on the awesome scale it's a triumph!

(Explanation for those who don't have the book: it turns images from Mirror Image into a liability. Your images begin attacking you each round for 2d6 force damage per successful hit.)
 

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