Bloodline Rules in your Game?

[Jraynack]

Hey all,

We want to hear from you about the bloodline rules that first appeared in Unearthed Arcana. Frankly, as a game master, do you allow players to use them? Furthermore, as a player, do you like them and use them?

In our upcoming Feudal Lord campaign, want want something to symbolize bloodline and ancestry to important personages. For example, in our upcoming dwarf guide we have devised various bloodlines to represent each of the dwarven clans that exist in the world of Terra.

However, we might have an easier solution than giving up levels to have bloodlines and before we delve into developing that system, we wanted to get gamers' opinions on the existing bloodline rules.

To give you an insight to our system, characters decide at 1st level to have a bloodline. Each time they have a bonus feat due to level advancement (1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, and so on) they exchange gaining a bonus feat for a bloodline ability (which would be equivalent to a feat). Characters would have the option of stop exchanging their bonus feats for bloodline abilities, but once they choose to stop, they cannot continue to gain bloodline abilities at a later date. The more bloodline abilities they possess, the greater their lineage to that particular ancestor, which might lead characters access to certain prestige classes (i.e. King of X Dwarven Clan).

Anyway, let us know what you think?

 

[irdeggman]

Try the Birthright system.

Here is the link for the fansite.

Chap 2 covers bloodlines.

The 2nd ed setting had pretty much the exact thing you are talking about.

http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2628

 

[taferial]

I tried the Titan major bloodline on a character (fighter/ paladin) started at 1st and adventured through to 17th (shackled city).

I made some bad choices dureing his career ill be the first to admit, but the loss of three character levels seemed to be the bigest mistake I made. I lost 3 hit dice, a couple of feats, +3 attack, saves and got affected a lot more by "if player is x level or lower" type spells. The gains, humm... I cant even remember what they were now, over-sized weapon weilding was one, of yes, Dayligh once a day. I realy dont think they balance. Particularly at the higher levels.

The troll-blood barbarian from a diferent group seemed not to have self-nurfed himself as hard as I had. I guess diferent classes are affected diferently. I dont think Ill ever go near the bloodline rules again, except for a one off, or I had an extremly specific character in mind.

Id use your method however, posibly ataching a skill to the bloodlines as a class skill and some minor bonus to an obscure save or skill (+2 whenever atempting to wrangle pixie's).

The level substitution method as presented in PHB II might work well too.

 

[Jraynack]

I dont think Ill ever go near the bloodline rules again, except for a one off, or I had an extremly specific character in mind.

That is what I am afraid of because it does put characters behind others similar to level adjustment. My brother's group in Seattle liked them well enough, but then again he isn't bothered by level adjusted characters whereas I could suffer playing a Lvl Adj. +1. His group however sacked their 1st level over and over again (I think) to quickly get it out of the way.

Id use your method however, posibly ataching a skill to the bloodlines as a class skill and some minor bonus to an obscure save or skill (+2 whenever atempting to wrangle pixie's).

That is a thought since you have to take them in order, they would get progressively better as a normal feat tree.

The level substitution method as presented in PHB II might work well too.

I do like the this method as well and in constant thought how to use it. It might work well with guilds and knightly orders, but we have already developed a system in A Question of Loyalty: A Guidebook to Military Orders that seems a well-like system by everyone who has the book. Its basically a +1 Lvl. Adj. when you join an order and you get a few class skills, access to special "order only" feats, and special abilities every 5 levels or so.

Anyway thanks for the input - anybody else?

 

[Satori]

I've stared at the bloodline options in UA for a long time...and no matter how you slice it, Bloodlines < Levels OR Feats.

If you want to use bloodlines and force your PCs to give up levels or feats, please give the abilities equivalent benefits.

Increase the stat bonuses by +1 (to give an even +2 on stats at intervals), allow special abilities to be used 3/day (rather than once...or even create a level based progression like 1/day/2 levels), etc...

Or...take a deep breath...give EVERYONE a free major bloodline at creation! The biggest problem with PC balance is typically among the PCs themselves, as drastic power imbalances ruin everyones fun. However, if EVERYONE had a bloodline, then no one could complain...and you as the DM are more than capable of adjusting the encounters to suit any imbalance in PC power.

 

[Jraynack]

If you want to use bloodlines and force your PCs to give up levels or feats, please give the abilities equivalent benefits.

First and foremost, Bloodlines would be an option and not something that is forced on any PC. The bloodlines would represent lineages to great personages in their ancestry more so than those presented in UA (monsters and such). It would be the PCs' choice.

If they decided to choose to have a bloodline - giving up their feats at certain levels - they would get the equivalent of a feat (instead of a feat, it might be called a Bloodline Trait or something).

Or...take a deep breath...give EVERYONE a free major bloodline at creation! The biggest problem with PC balance is typically among the PCs themselves, as drastic power imbalances ruin everyones fun. However, if EVERYONE had a bloodline, then no one could complain...and you as the DM are more than capable of adjusting the encounters to suit any imbalance in PC power.

Not everyone will have a bloodline - only those who want them. Which is the real purpose of the forum - as a company, in developing a new campaign setting - we want to make sure people actually use bloodlines before putting them into the setting as an option.

With that said, we could suggest in our campaign book a Game Master only option of having his PCs each have a free bloodline at creation (especially in a campaign where the Game Master is deciding the fates of an empire and the PCs are the major players from the beginning!) Personally, I could run such a campaign scenario since I have 20+ years of experience as a DM, but it could prove challenging to those not experienced and we want to reach a broad audience (experienced and new Game Masters and players alike).

Thanks again for your input - it is beginning to look as though the Bloodlines rules were wasted space in UA. Any other thoughts?

 

[brehobit]

Thanks again for your input - it is beginning to look as though the Bloodlines rules were wasted space in UA. Any other thoughts?

Yeah,
Blood lines are cool, but the level balancing trick fails.

In all honesty, I think D&D needs a better background option anyways. Lots of games (traveler and Rolemaster come to mind) do a good job with this.

I'd say: Drop the feat at first level. Give everyone N points to build a character (using point buy). Let them buy some things (feats, "always class skills", skill points, bloodlines) with those points in addition to stats. Price the feats by value (so great fort. costs less than power attack) and vary the costs by race. (EWP in a racial weapon costs less here). I've even thought about letting people buy a level AND treating them as 1 level lower for EXP. This could model the "common man" (no great skills) who has a lot of experience coming into the game. I think priced right it would work (stat increases can be balanced by ECL)

I've started on a whole bunch of systems for this, but only used it once. Next game....

Mark

 

[irdeggman]

Bloodline rules in UA were, IMO, designed for something completely different than what you are attempting to capture.

IMO - they were about a physical transformation and a different way of capturing that.


I again call attention to Birthright for a concept that captures what you want.

The setting was about rulership with bloodlines.

From the BRCS - chap 2

When the old gods died on Mt. Deismaar, the divine essence cascaded over those present on the field of battle and transformed them. Those who survived had sparks of divinity imparted to them. This divinity related to the nature of the god whose essence each hero had absorbed. The essence of each god was most strongly attracted to heroes with ideals most closely aligned with those of each deity. The strength of the spark imparted to each hero, on the other hand, was largely a factor of simple proximity to the expiring gods. These sparks of divinity and the manifestations of power associated with them bred as true genetic traits in the heroes' children. The descendents of these divine bloodlines are now known as scions.

This semi-divine nature of blooded scions makes them natural rulers. Blooded characters are far more effective regents than non-blooded characters. Most scions, however, are not regents – the majority of blooded characters are cousins, younger siblings to heirs, or other relations whose order of birth dictates that they are unlikely to ever wield political power. The majority of non-blooded characters are members of the middle and lower class. However, not all scions are of high birth; some blooded families have fallen, due to poor fortune or political manipulation, to the lowest tiers of society. Likewise, not all non-blooded characters are automatically peasants. 99% of Cerilia's population lacks a bloodline; non-blooded characters can be found at all social ranks. In fact, most highborn nobles, courtiers, advisors, and government officials do not possess a bloodline.

Bloodlines have three primary characteristics. A scion's bloodline derivation (Anduiras (And), Azrai (Az), Basaïa (Ba), Brenna (Bre), Masela (Ma), Reynir (Re), or Vorynn (Vor)) specifies the old god whose divine power flows in the veins of his family. A scion's bloodline strength (minor, major, great, or true) describes the purity of the scion's family's bloodline. A scion's bloodline score describes the power of a specific scion's divine essence. The manifestations of a bloodline are known as blood abilities.

Dragon magazine (I think it was #315, but I could be wrong there) had a system of using feats to capture this.

There are many ways to handle this but the basic concept I beleive is the same as what you are trying to capture.

 

[moritheil]

Be aware that due to poor wording in the Titan bloodline, a strict RAW interpretation means a player with that bloodline can wield Gargantuan weapons at no penalty. This won't be an issue in most campaigns, but if someone asks you repeatedly if you intend to allow them strictly RAW, this might be what they have in mind.

For those curious:

Use oversized weapon (Ex)2: As the titan special ability.

Oversized Weapon (Ex)

A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I think bloodlines are overrated. While you may never have to pay for a least bloodline, when you do have to pay for it, its not worth it.