Blade… Singer?

[Igwilly]

Blade… Singer?

Hey guys! It’s me, again.
Before I start with my plans about the new class I’m going to create, I wish to ask for some fluff – and mechanical – information.
What is a Bladesinger?
I saw this name in many places but I don’t have a good enough idea of what he/she is and what he/she does, and how he/she is different from other classes and options.
I know the Bladesinger is a gish-type character (martial + arcane mix), but I don’t know much else. And I don’t know why they are called Bladesingers.
I’m not talking just about one edition or two, but more of the overall concept. If one or other edition is to be favored, however, I would choose D&D 4e and AD&D 2e.
So, basically, what is a Bladesinger? How he/she is different from similar gish-options? Why they are called Bladesingers?
I know it sounds stupid, but for all this time I’m around in D&D, I didn’t still see the class in the books personally. Or I may have missed something. On the other hand, it may be something much simpler than I'm assuming it is. Any help is appreciated

 

[Joshua Randall]

The 4e description straight from the books (OK, technically from the online DDI Compendium) -- see below.

The 'singer' part in 4e really has no mechanical support. (You're not a bard or anything.) I suppose it's metaphorical, your blade 'sings' as it weaves through the air, or something like that.

In 4e a bladesinger is YACWFWSAS (Yet Another Class Who Fights With Sword And Spell), nothing more, nothing less.

Those who see a bladesinger in battle never forget the sight. Amid the chaos and blood, the bladesinger moves in an otherworldly dance. Spells and sword act as partners, matching awe-inspiring beauty with an awful deadliness. When the bladesinger engages in the true heart of the art, when the sword whirls through the air so swiftly that it keens and the air hums and whistles in chorus, when the bladesong has begun—then the bladesinger becomes something unreal, something timeless.
According to legend, Corellon himself inspired and taught the first bladesinger. The techniques handed down as a gift from the leader of the elven deities have passed from one to another among the Tel’Quessir for untold generations, and though different styles evolved as eladrin and elves turned its power to suit their needs, none have improved upon the essential core of the art.
The bladesinger wields a weapon one-handed, leaving the other free or using it to employ a wand that can be incorporated into the fighting style. This technique gives a bladesinger the speed and freedom of movement necessary for the dancelike motions of the various forms of martial art, which allow for both magical and physical attacks to flow freely.
Few among the Tel’Quessir have the honor of being inducted into the bladesingers. One must have the mind necessary to be a great wizard, and also the agility of the greatest dancer. Yet those traits alone are not enough. A bladesinger is first and foremost devoted to the ways and the people of the Tel’Quessir, for that was the purpose of Corellon’s gift.
A bladesinger who has set out beyond the borders of a nation of the People must have had good cause. Adventuring bladesingers might seek out relics or locations of great meaning to the Tel’Quessir, or they could leave in order to guard a specific person or group against harm. A bladesinger might instead embark upon a quest to eliminate a threat to the People or to find and communicate with some long-lost branch of the race. In a more tragic case, a bladesinger might have failed in the duty to protect a community and be death-pledged to avenge it and restore his or her honor.

 

[Igwilly]

^ Thanks. That answers me on 4e grounds.

Does anyone know about his 2e version? Or other versions?

 

[Manbearcat]

The Moldvay Basic Elf Ad&d2e "setting-i-fied" in the high fantasy aesthetic of the Star Wars Jedi. Mystical warrior with a mystical, supernatural/martial discipline.

Mechanically, you need:

1) Seemless, coherent integration of sword and spell. This typically comes in the form of action economy buffs such as free action attacks or spells.
2) Magical wards, short range teleport, and telekinesis stuff.
3) Limited use trance stuff that imbues the PC with preternatural speed (matrix-ey world slows down stuff). This tends toward blinding ripostes, amazing grace and agility.

The 4e version is by far the best to date, but the Dungeon World analog (arcane duelist) isn't far behind.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Does anyone know about his 2e version?

Was in the notoriously broken Complete Book of Elves and was notoriously broken even in that notoriously broken context. That's all I've ever heard about it.

Or other versions?

The 5e version is a Wizard Tradition in SCAG that gets Extra Attack, an AC bonus of sorts, and introduced some mildly-game-changing weapon-enhancing cantrips.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

They are one of a pantheon of sword-performers that include bladedancers, sworddrummers, knifeprancers, and the like. Though the ones you really have to watch out for are the swordmimes; they're silent but deadly.

 

[Igwilly]

The Moldvay Basic Elf Ad&d2e "setting-i-fied" in the high fantasy aesthetic of the Star Wars Jedi. Mystical warrior with a mystical, supernatural/martial discipline.

Mechanically, you need:

1) Seemless, coherent integration of sword and spell. This typically comes in the form of action economy buffs such as free action attacks or spells.
2) Magical wards, short range teleport, and telekinesis stuff.
3) Limited use trance stuff that imbues the PC with preternatural speed (matrix-ey world slows down stuff). This tends toward blinding ripostes, amazing grace and agility.

The 4e version is by far the best to date, but the Dungeon World analog (arcane duelist) isn't far behind.

Guy thanks. Basically, I’m trying to figure out how the Bladesinger is different from the other gish options, including fluff. In 4e, I already know that, it isn’t much different. But I wish to know more about 2e, since it’s the system I’m going to play in the near future.

Was in the notoriously broken Complete Book of Elves and was notoriously broken even in that notoriously broken context. That's all I've ever heard about it.



The 5e version is a Wizard Tradition in SCAG that gets Extra Attack, an AC bonus of sorts, and introduced some mildly-game-changing weapon-enhancing cantrips.

Hahahahaha oh guy; it’s because of posts like this that I value your wisdom. I already knew about The Complete Book of Elves, though. It seems that I should change some things if I want to use it.

 

[Ath'kethin]

Not to be obvious, but a quick Google search would pull up more and more specific answers to your questions.

 

[Manbearcat]

Guy thanks. Basically, I’m trying to figure out how the Bladesinger is different from the other gish options, including fluff. In 4e, I already know that, it isn’t much different. But I wish to know more about 2e, since it’s the system I’m going to play in the near future.



Hahahahaha oh guy; it’s because of posts like this that I value your wisdom. I already knew about The Complete Book of Elves, though. It seems that I should change some things if I want to use it.

Fluff-wise, the 2e Elven Bladesinger kit was, as I noted above, very Jedi-ish. They were basically elven special forces who:

a) Had a Padawan <> Master relationship (Jedi)
b) Devoted themselves to the mystical art of the Bladesong (the Force)
c) Devoted themselves to the mastery of a singular weapon (Lightsaber) with a legacy tattoo signifying that relationship (
d) Could grab stuff telekinetically (Mage Hand, TK later on), mind trick folks (Charm Person), and do crazy acrobatic/speed stuff (Jump, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall et al) (Jedis using the force)
e) Served as traveling diplomats/representatives for the Elven Senate…errrr empires (Jedi)

So, again, just think Jedi thematically.

Mechanics-wise, the Complete Book of Elves stuff wasn’t that bad. The meme of overpowered stuff in there has always sort of struck me as kindred spirits with the OMG 3.0 MONKS ARE OP! Thing. Perhaps at a glance, but once you get under the hood and consider things in context…not so much. Consider that this edition has (a) Generalist Wizards with proliferate spell slots and (b) Specialty Priests. Alongside them, everything up to and including a fully Grandmaster specced straight Fighter (with ridiculous saves/AC, attack rate/damage, HPs) is borderline insignificant. In fact, I had a 14^th level (ish) AD&D 2e game with these 4 builds in it. The straight Fighter more than held his own against the capabilities of the Bladesinger (especially if nasty Breath Weapons were about). The Generalist Wizard and Specialty Priest both trivially dominated play (as one would expect).

Of final note, the kit employs the Parry rules found in the Complete Fighter’s Handbook (if I recall correctly). It gives a trance that basically lets you switch from offense, to defense, to subbing an attack for a Parry.

 

[Igwilly]

Fluff-wise, the 2e Elven Bladesinger kit was, as I noted above, very Jedi-ish. They were basically elven special forces who:

a) Had a Padawan <> Master relationship (Jedi)
b) Devoted themselves to the mystical art of the Bladesong (the Force)
c) Devoted themselves to the mastery of a singular weapon (Lightsaber) with a legacy tattoo signifying that relationship (
d) Could grab stuff telekinetically (Mage Hand, TK later on), mind trick folks (Charm Person), and do crazy acrobatic/speed stuff (Jump, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall et al) (Jedis using the force)
e) Served as traveling diplomats/representatives for the Elven Senate…errrr empires (Jedi)

So, again, just think Jedi thematically.

Mechanics-wise, the Complete Book of Elves stuff wasn’t that bad. The meme of overpowered stuff in there has always sort of struck me as kindred spirits with the OMG 3.0 MONKS ARE OP! Thing. Perhaps at a glance, but once you get under the hood and consider things in context…not so much. Consider that this edition has (a) Generalist Wizards with proliferate spell slots and (b) Specialty Priests. Alongside them, everything up to and including a fully Grandmaster specced straight Fighter (with ridiculous saves/AC, attack rate/damage, HPs) is borderline insignificant. In fact, I had a 14^th level (ish) AD&D 2e game with these 4 builds in it. The straight Fighter more than held his own against the capabilities of the Bladesinger (especially if nasty Breath Weapons were about). The Generalist Wizard and Specialty Priest both trivially dominated play (as one would expect).

Of final note, the kit employs the Parry rules found in the Complete Fighter’s Handbook (if I recall correctly). It gives a trance that basically lets you switch from offense, to defense, to subbing an attack for a Parry.

Thank you. That was what I wanted to know.

I think this settles the issue. Sorry if I was annoying; Google just doesn’t work all the time for me (yes, I tried that before).

On a side note: I think I won’t have much problem about this in my game. Nobody in my group even remotely enjoys Character optimization, and I’m pretty much the arbiter about content being used. However, I will remain alert for possible game-breaking issues.
Thank you all for the information