Best higher level duskblade spells?

[NewJeffCT]

As I had mentioned in some other threads, one of the leaders of the bad guys is a duskblade that has been a long-time party nemesis (way back from when the PCs were 4th level and the duskblade was 6th) - this duskblade has dropped a PC in each encounter (though, two of the three times, the PC was saved) and a couple of major NPC allies as well.

This time, the duskblade is 18th level and the PCs are level 17.

I think Enervation or Toxic Weapon as 4th level touch spells? Enervation allows no save, though is subject to Spell Resistance. Toxic Weapon beats SR, but allows a Fortitude save. She already has Dimension Door & Fire Shield as defensive spells.

However, I still think Vampiric Touch is the best choice as a touch spell overall - do 9d6 spell damage and also gain 9d6 temporary hit points. Do it as part of a full attack and she can do 36d6 damage with 4 hits (average 126) while also gaining 36d6 temporary hit points... and the 126 does not even count weapon damage. So, dish out 175 points of damage and gain 125 or so temporary hit points. (then, bang, my duskblade fails a save vs a mind affecting spell... and that's all she wrote)

How about a 5th level spell? Go with Disintegrate, or something else?

Thanks

 

[Shin Okada]

First of all, Duskblade can channel touch spell only. Ranged touch spells are not touch spells and thus not for channeling. It is clarified so in official FAQ and I think that is a reasonable interpretation.

So, Empowered Vampiric Touch could be the best option still. Maybe combined with Arcane Strike feat and with Energy Surge spell. Spending a 5th-level slot for Arcane Strike, that is +10d6 x 1.5 (Empowered Vampiric Touch) + 5d4 (Arcane Strike) + 2d6 (Energy Surge) per hit. +72 damage in average.

Or, instead of using Energy Surge (a swift action spell), the Duskblade can cast a stronger spell as a swift action, with his Quick Cast class ability. Enervation is good. Another good option is Bigby's Clenched Fist and Polar Ray (18d6 cold!). Unless that Duskblade's Int is really high, avoid spells with save. Duskblade's spell DC is usually not high enough to be effective.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

All of the 5th level spells look good, honestly. ...Except for Slashing Dispel, which appears to cap at CL 10 for a bonus, making it suck.

Clenched Fist: If you expect the fight to last a long time, the free damage each round could add up to a lot. If you expect a quick shoot-out, less useful. The bull rush mod is also high, if there's any dangerous precipices nearby.
Chain Lightning: Reliable ranged damage to the entire party.
Disintegrate: Probably not a good choice, most people jack up the fort save, so it's likely to only do 5d6.
Hold Monster: Taking someone out of the fight...heck, leaving them open to coup de grace is just plain awesome. Obviously less useful if the PC cleric has scrolls of remove paralysis. Best/most evil use: ready action to disrupt a PC's attack. Both to deny the action and because after the initial save, the victim gets one at the start of each turn. By using it in the middle of the turn, he has to wait a full combat cycle for that 2nd save.
Polar Ray: Actually not that bad as a damage option from range.
Waves of Fatigue: If it affects the entire party, someone will surely end up fatigued. It'd be nice if any charge-based PC were to get fatigued...
Sonic Shield: Kinda low damage, more useful for the pushback if wading into melee.

I'd go with...Hold Monster and Chain Lightning. Waves of Fatigue and Clenched Fist also being good options.

And yeah, the Vampiric Touch synergy is crazy.

 

[Physiker]

IIRC Bloodstone from MIC empowers your vampiric touch for free. So you don't have to waste a feat or carry a rod. And it's kind of awsome in the hands of a duskblade, because it has no cap, at least I don't remember any

 

[Shin Okada]

IIRC Bloodstone from MIC empowers your vampiric touch for free. So you don't have to waste a feat or carry a rod. And it's kind of awsome in the hands of a duskblade, because it has no cap, at least I don't remember any

Bloodstone property can hold only one Vampiric Touch at a time. And as it says nothing otherwise, the Vampiric Touch spell from Bloodstone weapon uses the caster level of that magic weapon, I assume.

As it can cast a stored spell with a free action, not bad. But it takes a standard action to store a Vampiric Touch into it. So the Duskblade likely to use that property only once per encounter. Also, temporary hit points gained from multiple applications of Vampiric touch do not stack as they are from same source.

So, a Duskblade with Bloodstone weapon can increase the damage of one hit by (the weapons caster level /2) d6 x1.5 in an encounter. And that will likely to be the only thing he gets. I am not sure if it worth the cost of another +1 enhancement bonus.

 

[NewJeffCT]

First of all, Duskblade can channel touch spell only. Ranged touch spells are not touch spells and thus not for channeling. It is clarified so in official FAQ and I think that is a reasonable interpretation.

So, Empowered Vampiric Touch could be the best option still. Maybe combined with Arcane Strike feat and with Energy Surge spell. Spending a 5th-level slot for Arcane Strike, that is +10d6 x 1.5 (Empowered Vampiric Touch) + 5d4 (Arcane Strike) + 2d6 (Energy Surge) per hit. +72 damage in average.

Or, instead of using Energy Surge (a swift action spell), the Duskblade can cast a stronger spell as a swift action, with his Quick Cast class ability. Enervation is good. Another good option is Bigby's Clenched Fist and Polar Ray (18d6 cold!). Unless that Duskblade's Int is really high, avoid spells with save. Duskblade's spell DC is usually not high enough to be effective.

Yes, I know Disintegrate is a ranged touch spell - I figure she can quick cast that one while in melee (no AoO), and then do a full attack with the longsword.

Can a duskblade empower spells? I thought spontaneous casters needed to take a full round action to empower?

 

[Sharkon]

.

This time, the duskblade is 18th level and the PCs are level 17.


However, I still think Vampiric Touch is the best choice as a touch spell overall - do 9d6 spell damage and also gain 9d6 temporary hit points. Do it as part of a full attack and she can do 36d6 damage with 4 hits (average 126) while also gaining 36d6 temporary hit points...

Thanks

I would like to comment this statement. In arcane channeling full attack , you damage your target with the spell only once regardless of how many times you hit him. Am i wrong about this ?

For your high slot spells i would recommend empowered - fiery scorching ray. If you also take Arcane thesis then this 5th lvl spell will be a 3rd lvl spell

 

[Runestar]

Your spell dcs likely won't be all that stellar (between their low spell lvs and an expected modest int score), so I would try to stick to spells that generally do not offer saves if possible, because I would expect the PCs to make their saves reliably by this point.

Waves of fatigue may be useful, especially if you open combat with a quickened version. Polar ray does decent damage.

I will stay away from energy surge as I will assume that your duskblade has arcane strike (which gives better bonuses for the same slot, and is a free action to use).

For channeling, I guess vampiric touch is your best bet (empowered/maximized if possible). Those temp hp are going to get depleted fast, so you will likely end up using them every round. Maybe throwing in a whirling weapon (MIC) for access to whirlwind 3/day (in tandem with a reach weapon and perhaps enlarge person?).

 

[Shin Okada]

Can a duskblade empower spells? I thought spontaneous casters needed to take a full round action to empower?

It's somewhat debatable. But Arcane Channeling says,

The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less.

And SRD's Metamafic Feats entry says,

Sorcerers and Bards: Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.)
For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell.
Spontaneous Casting and Metamagic Feats: A cleric spontaneously casting a cure or inflict spell can cast a metamagic version of it instead. Extra time is also required in this case. Casting a 1-action metamagic spell spontaneously is a full-round action, and a spell with a longer casting time takes an extra full-round action to cast.

(Emphasis added)

So, applying a metamagic feat does not actually change the "casting time" of the spell. So, metamagiced version of Vampiric Touch spell still has "1 action" casting time. It is just that it takes a full-round action if you cast it in the usual way.

Then arcane channeling overwrites what kind of action you needed. You can either use a standard action to cast a touch spell and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee attack. Or at 13th level, you can cast a touch spell as a part of a full attack action.

I am not sure if it is supported 100% by official clarification. But at least, the official FAQ has the following entry.

If a 13th-level duskblade (PH2 20) applied a metamagic feat to the touch spell he channeled through his weapon, would the feat’s effect apply to each successful attack made as part of the full attack action?
Yes. Unless somehow indicated otherwise by the spell or effect, the full effect of the spell (including metamagic feats and any other effects) would apply to each and every target hit as part of the full attack action.

So I assume the sage was thinking that a duskblade can use metamagic feats when using arcane channeling.

 

[Physiker]

Can a duskblade empower spells? I thought spontaneous casters needed to take a full round action to empower?

You could choose Rapid Metamagic and Empower Spell, but that would burn two feats.

I would like to comment this statement. In arcane channeling full attack , you damage your target with the spell only once regardless of how many times you hit him. Am i wrong about this ?

That's right, but since you can hit multiple opponents with one fullround action the spell can effect multiple opponents if enough are within reach.
So the math seems correct.

Bloodstone property can hold only one Vampiric Touch at a time. And as it says nothing otherwise, the Vampiric Touch spell from Bloodstone weapon uses the caster level of that magic weapon, I assume.

Doesn't it work like a spell storing weapon ? So it would be your caster level, I guess.