D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?

[mellored]

CME clearly scales harder than intended when combined with lots of attacks. Mainly Scorching Ray and (quicken) Eldritch Blast.

I.e.
Cast CME at 9th level, it adds 12d8 per attack
Use Eldritch Blast + Quicken Eldritch Blast for 8 attacks.
8d10 +96d8 = 476 damage per round.
*Not included Agonizing Blast.


So what's the best way to fix it?
Once per turn?
Melee / weapon only?
Scale by 1d8 per level?
1d8 every other level?
Something completely different?

 

[Jolly Ruby]

I would keep the old version, the niche for true summoning spells where you conjure monsters from another plane is already lacking.

 

[mellored]

I would keep the old version, the niche for true summoning spells where you conjure monsters from another plane is already lacking.

The game really slows down when you get 8+ creatures on the table.

And they have Summon Elemental for the actual summoning, limited to 1 creature.

 

[Horwath]

Just remove upcasting of the spell.

4th level for +2d8 per attack with using concentration might be OK.

hmm... what is damage bonus of Hunter's mark at 4th level?
Still +1d6? Never mind then...

 

[mellored]

Just remove upcasting of the spell.

4th level for +2d8 per attack with using concentration might be OK.

hmm... what is damage bonus of Hunter's mark at 4th level?
Still +1d6? Never mind then...

Spirit Shroud is 1d8 at level 3
Scaling by 1d8 every 2 levels.

Elemental weapon is a +1 to hit and 1d4
Scaling by +1 and 1d4 every 2 levels.

 

[NotAYakk]

You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. Until the spell ends, once on your turn you can make a melee spell attack on any number of creatures of your choice in the Emanation. When these attacks hit, they deal 2d8 damage. This damage is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack). In addition, the ground in the Emanation is Difficult Terrain for your enemies.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4.

This is what I'd do. The elementals are attacking, and they go after everyone (you choose to) in the Emanation.

It is a variation on Spirit Guardians, but attack based.

The original version, drop a 5th level Minor Elementals (4d8), then a 5th level Scotching Ray (5 rays @ 2d6) for 125 damage is a bit much.

Or a 6th/6th for 36d8+12d6 (204)
Or a 9th/8th for 112d8+16d6 (560)

 

[Horwath]

The original version, drop a 5th level Minor Elementals (4d8), then a 5th level Scotching Ray (5 rays @ 2d6) for 125 damage is a bit much.

Or a 6th/6th for 36d8+12d6 (204)
Or a 9th/8th for 112d8+16d6 (560)

 

[DrJawaPhD]

CME clearly scales harder than intended.

So what's the best way to fix it?

My answer is change the scaling to be +1d8 per level instead of +2d8 per level. I prefer this answer because it allows the spell to still be powerful, while not scaling to obscenely game breaking numbers. My rationale:

The obvious spell to compare Conjure Minor Elementals (CME) to is Spirit Shroud (SS). In my opinion, CME should do more damage than SS, since CME takes an Action and SS is a Bonus Action. Also let's not forget that SS is not a particularly strong spell - it is useful in the right build but it is fairly niche, and even if SS were itself buffed a bit this would not break anything.

I do not like changing the damage to be once per turn. You may as well ban the spell from the game, because this makes the spell completely worthless. Banning the spell entirely is a much better idea than this.

Changing the scaling to 1d8 per 2 levels is ok, but I feel it just makes the spell too weak to justify its existence. At that point the spell would do similar damage to SS while requiring an Action instead of Bonus Action. Sure the emanation is slightly larger and duration is longer, but this just makes it SS but worse, and SS is not an overpowered spell.

At +1d8 per level, the spell scales to some rather good damage (particularly if you are able to cast CME before combat starts and have your Action free on round 1), but now it becomes a really strong spell instead of an obscenely busted spell. Which I'm ok with, I think...

 

[Sulicius]

CME clearly scales harder than intended.

So what's the best way to fix it?
Once per turn?
Scale by 1d8 per level?
1d8 every other level?
Something else?

Ask your players not to build around a single spell.

 

[Daztur]

I would keep the old version, the niche for true summoning spells where you conjure monsters from another plane is already lacking.

I would also prefer if when my character conjures minor elements he conjures minor elements, not a mobile AoE. Just cut down on the number of critters you can summon at once and/or require you to use your action to command the critters to prevent the action economy from getting borked.