Belt of Ironskin vs. Cloak of resistance

[austinwulf]

Ironskin belt is a level 5 magic item. for a minor action, and as a Daily, you gain resist 5 to all weapon damage until the end of your turn.

Cloak of Resistance is level 2, grants +1 to fort/def/and will, and as a minor Daily you gain resist 5 to all damage until the begining of your next turn.

Beyond getting a little extra protection time from the belt, (works good for opportune attacks) it really doesn't seem to be a good value in comparison to the cloak.

Thoughts?

 

[Shieldhaven]

Except that the two aren't really in competition with each other for the same magic item slot. The Belt of Ironskin is balanced against other belts, none of which grant static bonuses to your defenses. The Cloak of Protection is balanced against things that do. There's no reason you can't have both, if you can afford it and have enough magic item activations to go around.

Haven

 

[ShaggySpellsword]

Read the Ironskin Belt again. It says until the end of your NEXT turn.

So it can be useful for OAs for two rounds of movement, plus all of the time in-between

 

[keterys]

Yeah, it bugs me a little too - I'm okay with the concept that the +1 fort/ref/will is basically free, but it rubs me wrong that even if you ignore that, the cloak is still a better item.

But, eh well, it all works.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, it bugs me a little too - I'm okay with the concept that the +1 fort/ref/will is basically free, but it rubs me wrong that even if you ignore that, the cloak is still a better item.

But, eh well, it all works.

I find the Cloak of survival better than Resistance.
Heckj, I can buy the belt and get both abilities.

 

[keterys]

I also find the Cloak of Survival better than the Cloak of Resistance. It is higher level, at least which helps there

It doesn't really change any details of the comparison between the Ironskin Belt and Cloak of Resistance, though.

 

[lightblade]

I also find the Cloak of Survival better than the Cloak of Resistance. It is higher level, at least which helps there

It doesn't really change any details of the comparison between the Ironskin Belt and Cloak of Resistance, though.

But it does. Let's say you want the ability to resist 5 all damage once a day. You can get in one of two ways: the Belt or the Cloak. You need to weigh the next best cloak you could have versus the next best belt you could have to make your decision.

 

[keterys]

No, it does not. The existence of a shinier, tastier, less calorie, cheaper option that is completely different does not in any way affect the comparison of two completely different things.

I can cheerfully say that I like Diet Coke better than Diet Pepsi without someone saying 'Yeah, but you could always get Diet Ginger Ale' I'm comparing these two items - one clearly better than the other in every way possible, and 3 levels lower, and saying that I dislike that the item system works that way. I also don't like that there are items that give +2 to two skills that are 7th and 8th level, only difference being the skills, or +2 basic damage with melee is 2nd, ranged is 3rd... these choices seem random and arbitrary by and large, rather than a precise plan. I'm okay with fuzzy levels such that you don't have stupidness like 'So, 2000g for True Strike always on, right?' but I still want 'So if I want a +2 diplomacy item, it'll be the same as the +2 perception one, right?'

As a total aside: The Cloak of Survival is most likely not going to make an appearance in the games I DM - I don't really like the glut of resistance items and the effect it has on play and certain monsters. I'm okay with the occasional resistance item to one type (amulet of health), but I dislike the ability for an entire party to be kitted out in resist fire or have resistances to 4 energies. That's just me, though. To each their own.

 

[austinwulf]

Read the Ironskin Belt again. It says until the end of your NEXT turn.

So it can be useful for OAs for two rounds of movement, plus all of the time in-between

I did read that and even bolded it for the sake of comparison though to be honest, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of activating it before your first move. Good thought

I'm looking at this from the economy standpoint.

One item gives me protection from Weapons...and that's all that it does...(well...maybe it holds your pants up too) though it does it for a slightly increased amount of time, depending on when you activate it.

The other item grants me bonus to my defences all day, and then once a day protects me from All types of damage for slightly less time. (possible slight hazy area if it ends before or after any ongoings you have on you hit)

The cloak, which gives a better protection, (all vs. just weapons) and a constant bonus (+1 to ref/fort/will) is only a level 2.

I understand you get the items you get, but it almost seems as if the level 5 belt doesn't perform as well as a level 2 cloak. If it were my gold pieces, I'd need a heck of a surplus before I bought that belt.

I think the level 2 belt of vigor seems like more glitz for your gold.

 

[jdpacheco]

I did read that and even bolded it for the sake of comparison though to be honest, I wasn't thinking of it in terms of activating it before your first move. Good thought

I'm looking at this from the economy standpoint.

One item gives me protection from Weapons...and that's all that it does...(well...maybe it holds your pants up too) though it does it for a slightly increased amount of time, depending on when you activate it.

The other item grants me bonus to my defences all day, and then once a day protects me from All types of damage for slightly less time. (possible slight hazy area if it ends before or after any ongoings you have on you hit)

The cloak, which gives a better protection, (all vs. just weapons) and a constant bonus (+1 to ref/fort/will) is only a level 2.

I understand you get the items you get, but it almost seems as if the level 5 belt doesn't perform as well as a level 2 cloak. If it were my gold pieces, I'd need a heck of a surplus before I bought that belt.

I think the level 2 belt of vigor seems like more glitz for your gold.

You're still neglecting the "slot" effect. All neck items grant bonuses to the non-AC defenses. The base item which gives a +1 to the non-AC items is the level one "Amulet of Protection". For a level 2 item, you get to have Resist: All for less than a round once per day in addition to the defense bonus. Seems about right to me.

For a 5th level item, you get resistance to the damage that most likely to be caused (weapon damage, especially when talking opportunity attacks), probably at least until higher levels than 5th. In addition, you can still wear *another* item in the neck slot, perhaps the Amulet of Health (constant on Resist Poison), or the Safewing Amulet ("I've fallen and I can't get up."). There's no other waist item in that level range. Obviously, most characters aren't going to have something for every level for every slot. Is the Belt of Vigor better? Maybe. Depends on how much you get hit in a round. Most PCs have around 10 Healing Surges in a day, which means that the belt of vigor represents 10 extra hp. If you get twice on the round that you activated your Ironskin belt, it's earned it's place to be equal to the Vigor belt. If you get hit three times, it's begun to surpass it. If you only get hit once, or don't hit at all (at least with weapon attacks), then it becomes not worth it.

Anyway, the way I see it is: The advantage of the belt is that it's not your neck.

As always, YMMV.