Bastard sword v. Greatsword

[Reaper Steve]

I know there has been much discussion about these two weapons, but I largely ignored most of it. But now I'm curious...

My perception is that the general consensus is that the bastard sword outshines the greatsword.

Are these in fact balanced against each other beyond what the weapon stat line shows?

Best I can tell, for the price of a weapon proficiency feat to use the bastard sword, a PC gets greatsword damage from one hand, or greatsword damage+1 if used two-handed. If that PC happens to be a dual-wielding ranger, he is basically using two greatswords.

Seems like the real question is: is that level of benefit worth one feat? (My perception is that the answer is 'yes.')

At the same time, it really bugs me that a bastard sword being wielded in two hands would have a higher average damage than a greatsword.

If you think that the bastard sword does indeed supplant the greatsword, what fix do you recommend?
-- increase greatsword damage to 1d12?
-- give the greatsword 'high crit?'

Or, even better, I'd like to hear from someone who thinks that the weapons are balanced against each other (due to the feat requirement or something else I missed.)

Thanks!

 

[Thomson]

I know there has been much discussion about these two weapons, but I largely ignored most of it. But now I'm curious...

Uh, I really recommend skimming through some of the threads which are about this topic.

From my POV to sum it up:

• Bastard Sword is a superior weapon and therefore rightfully better than a Greatsword.
• Some say, some two weapon powers only work with Greatsword, some say they also work with bastard sword (don't know if this has been solved). If they don't, you do full Str damage with a Greatsword with Reaping Strike, and half with a Bastard Sword even if you wield the Bastard sword in two hands.
• I would say, wait for Martial Power to see if they do anything to make heavy blades more interesting

 

[Reaper Steve]

Uh, I really recommend skimming through some of the threads which are about this topic.

When I get home from Afghanistan next month, I plan on buying a community supporter account. Then I will have access to the search feature and I will search out and read those old threads!

From my POV to sum it up:

• Bastard Sword is a superior weapon and therefore rightfully better than a Greatsword.

Just curious... why do you say that?

 

[Thomson]

When I get home from Afghanistan next month, I plan on buying a community supporter account. Then I will have access to the search feature and I will search out and read those old threads!

Ah, ok... sorry, I was talking about the WotC boards, forgot that you can't search here...

Just curious... why do you say that?

Well, you have to spend a feat for the Bastard Sword, and therefore it should be better than a weapon you can use without a feat. Some people recommended to create the Fullblade, which is a superior weapon like the bastard sword and which is basically a Greatsword doing 1d12 damage.

 

[FireLance]

Well, you have to spend a feat for the Bastard Sword, and therefore it should be better than a weapon you can use without a feat. Some people recommended to create the Fullblade, which is a superior weapon like the bastard sword and which is basically a Greatsword doing 1d12 damage.

Alternatively, create a Greatweapon Specialization feat that gives you +1 damage per tier with two-handed melee weapons (but not versatile weapons).

 

[Thomson]

Alternatively, create a Greatweapon Specialization feat that gives you +1 damage per tier with two-handed melee weapons (but not versatile weapons).

Well, a d12 heavy blade would be better, since it gives you +1 average damage for each die, which would improve damage with encounter and daily powers significantly.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Ah, ok... sorry, I was talking about the WotC boards, forgot that you can't search here...

And I'm completely blocked from the WotC boards out here!

I get what you are saying about the bastard sword being a superior weapon... since it takes a feat it should be better. BUT... I think it should only be better than a comparable military weapon. One order of magnitude better, if you will. It seems like the bastard sword is two orders of magnitude better. It gets d10 damage and retains versatile.

 

[Saeviomagy]

And I'm completely blocked from the WotC boards out here!

I get what you are saying about the bastard sword being a superior weapon... since it takes a feat it should be better. BUT... I think it should only be better than a comparable military weapon. One order of magnitude better, if you will. It seems like the bastard sword is two orders of magnitude better. It gets d10 damage and retains versatile.

Eh? It's one step better than a longsword (versatile, d8) and it's one step better than the greatsword(no versatile->versatile).

In fact, the feat is worth effectively a mere +1 damage.

The only real problem is that there's a point where bastard sword proficiency is the only feat left to take if you want to deal damage with heavy blades (either 1 or 2 handed), and so everyone ends up taking it. I imagine that once there are enough splatbooks, this might well simply go away as a problem.

 

[Mengu]

I don't really know what the best solution would have been for the Greatsword. If you make it a d12, then there isn't a whole lot of point in taking a Greateaxe because the +1 proficiency bonus of the Greatsword would far outweigh high crit. We almost need a d11 or something in between there, or all the two-handed weapons and bows need a damage bump, which would be too many changes.

The Brutal property may be a good solution. If you added Brutal 1 to a Greatsword, it gives the weapon a 0.5 average damage bump over the Bastard sword. So for a greatweapon fighter, getting the bastard sword proficiency would only yield a +0.5 damage on 1[W] rolls, no extra damage on 2[W] rolls, and less damage on any n[W] rolls where n>2. So the Bastard sword feat may suddenly not be worth it for the greatweapon fighter. Instead they would pick a superior two handed sword with Brutal 2.

The only problem with this approach, is that I don't like the mechanics for the Brutal property, as I think it would be hard to remember in the heat of the moment, and you're rolling 3d10 and adding the numbers, it's real easy to miss the fact that one of them happened to be a 1, and needed to be rerolled. I would ink in "reroll" on the 1's of my d10's if I was using such a weapon.

 

[Kzach]

My perception is that the general consensus is that the bastard sword outshines the greatsword.

There was a consensus?

IMNSHO, giving any weapon that can be wielded 2H a +1 damage bonus basically solves all the problems. And I don't care if anyone disagrees with me, because my world is tranquil and peaceful and radiates a calm aura of righteousness that cannot be thwarted by the unholy infidels. Especially the one known as keterys