Bashing Shield

[Pinotage]

The description of the 3.5e Bashing property for a shield states that the shield 'acts like a +1 weapon'. I know that elsewhere it states that this gives the obvious +1 attack and damage, but does it also allow you to overcome 'magic' Damage Reduction?

If the shield was spiked as well, and the spikes were enchanted to +1, would the two attack and damage bonuses stack? I can't see if the shield's bonus to attack and damage is an enhancement bonus or a unnamed bonus. e.g. would I +1 Spiked Bashing Shield +1 (how's that for a mouthful!) give +2 to attack and damage?

Thanks!

Pinotage

 

[Darklone]

Bashing: A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. (Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.)
Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull’s strength; Price +1 bonus.

Hmm. As usual, shields are the best offhand weapons (rant).

Spikes on a bashing shield are mostly useless. Either you bash with the normal shield for the 1d8+1 bludgeoning damage or you use the spikes which get no benefit from the Bashing enhancement.

And even if it would work as you described, the enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack.

 

[Pinotage]

Spikes on a bashing shield are mostly useless. Either you bash with the normal shield for the 1d8+1 bludgeoning damage or you use the spikes which get no benefit from the Bashing enhancement.

And even if it would work as you described, the enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack.

Thanks.

Spikes on a shield increase the shield's damage by one size category, while the Bashing property increases it by two. Are you saying these two don't stack? In other words, a 1d4 shield with spikes and Bashing would do 1d10 if they stacked, but only 1d8 if it didn't. I'm not sure how you can bash with a spiked shield without using the spikes as you suggest.

The Bashing property never states what kind of bonus the +1 attack and damage are, but one would assume that since it acts like a +1 weapon, the bonus must be enhancement like the weapon. However, under the discussion of shield bashes in the magic item - armor section, it specifically only mentions the Bashing +1 as a bonus. Hence I'm not sure if it's unnamed or enhancement and would stack with the bonus from, say, +2 Spikes.

Thanks again!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spikes on a shield increase the shield's damage by one size category, while the Bashing property increases it by two. Are you saying these two don't stack?

My reading of the effects as written is that they absolutely stack.

The FAQ disagrees, but it has some odd ideas about shield spikes.

The Bashing property never states what kind of bonus the +1 attack and damage are, but one would assume that since it acts like a +1 weapon, the bonus must be enhancement like the weapon.

That's right. A +1 weapon is a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus, so "as a +1 weapon" gives it an effective +1 enhancement bonus. If you have your shield also crafted as a +1 weapon, the two enhancement bonuses won't stack... but you need to give it a +1 weapon enhancement bonus before you can add any weapon special abilities. The Bashing ability isn't sufficient for you to add, say, Flaming or Holy to your shield (or spiked shield).

-Hyp.

 

[robberbaron]

Spikes on a shield increase the shield's damage by one size category, while the Bashing property increases it by two. Are you saying these two don't stack? In other words, a 1d4 shield with spikes and Bashing would do 1d10 if they stacked, but only 1d8 if it didn't. I'm not sure how you can bash with a spiked shield without using the spikes as you suggest.

The Bashing property never states what kind of bonus the +1 attack and damage are, but one would assume that since it acts like a +1 weapon, the bonus must be enhancement like the weapon. However, under the discussion of shield bashes in the magic item - armor section, it specifically only mentions the Bashing +1 as a bonus. Hence I'm not sure if it's unnamed or enhancement and would stack with the bonus from, say, +2 Spikes.

A Spiked Shield is a shield covered in spikes. It counts as one item so you can't have a +1 shield with +2 spikes (unless your GM wants to make a rather benevolent house rule).
A Bashing Spiked Heavy Shield would d 2d6+1 damage due to it being 3 sizes larger (d6 -> d8, d8 -> 2d6). A Light one would do 1d8+1.

The Bashing enhancement makes the shield act as a +1 weapon, so it is like wielding a +1 weapon.
You could have a Bashing +2 Shield, but it would still act as a +1 weapon when used to bash.

I don't see any reason why you could not create a +2 Bashing Shield (acts as a +2 weapon) for a +2 bonus, though I think I might rule that you could only make a +2 or better shield a +2 Bashing shield (to a max of +5 shield/+5 Bashing for a total enhancement of +10).

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Spiked Shield is a shield covered in spikes. It counts as one item so you can't have a +1 shield with +2 spikes (unless your GM wants to make a rather benevolent house rule).

It's one item, but:

"An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

and

"An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

You're right that you can't have a +1 shield with +2 spikes.

However, you can have a +1 shield that is also a +2 weapon, or a +1 spiked shield that is also a +2 weapon.

You could even have a +5 Shield of Heavy Fortification that is also a +4 Flaming Burst, Spell-Storing, Speed weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Pinotage]

It's one item, but:

"An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

and

"An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

You're right that you can't have a +1 shield with +2 spikes.

However, you can have a +1 shield that is also a +2 weapon, or a +1 spiked shield that is also a +2 weapon.
-Hyp.

So I could pay 4169 gp to buy a spiked light steel shield +1, Bashing, but then pay a further 8000 gp, say, to make it into a +2 weapon? That would mean I only get +2 attack and damage with the weapon, and not +3 since the Bashing won't stack with the +2 weapon? But I still get the benefit of 3 size increases on the weapon damage due to spikes and Bashing?

Apologies if I'm having a hard time understanding

Pinotage

 

[Bauglir]

So I could pay 4169 gp to buy a spiked light steel shield +1, Bashing, but then pay a further 8000 gp, say, to make it into a +2 weapon? That would mean I only get +2 attack and damage with the weapon, and not +3 since the Bashing won't stack with the +2 weapon? But I still get the benefit of 3 size increases on the weapon damage due to spikes and Bashing?

Apologies if I'm having a hard time understanding

Pinotage

Grey area how these stack I think. I'd allow the +1 bashing shield to be considered a +1 weapon for purposes of further weapon enchantments, so you would only need a further 6000GP to make it a +2 weapon. I'm still not sure about the spikes stacking with bashing for purposes of effective size - it seems like they should, but 1d10 with a shield bash seems like too much..

 

[Pinotage]

I'm still not sure about the spikes stacking with bashing for purposes of effective size - it seems like they should, but 1d10 with a shield bash seems like too much..

If it's any help, this is for a halfling character with a light steel shield. It changes the 1d2 to 1d6, which is the same as the small longsword in the other hand. I just like the idea of a three foot high halfling smashing humans' kneecaps in!

 

[robberbaron]

The SRD doesn't say that Bashing doesn't stack with spikes and the general rule of thumb seems to be that if it doesn't say you can't then you can.

The text for Bashing Shields is specific about the shield acting as a +1 weapon so I personally don't think that would stack with any WEAPON enhancement made to the shield. After all, Bashing is a SHIELD enhancement.
If you allow them to stack then you would seem to be implying that one could have a sword with an ARMOUR bonus without having to pay for the Defender enhancement.
OK, a GM might rule that you can, but I don't think you should be able to mix shield and weapon enhancements on the same item.

IMHO.