Bard Multiclass..anything good?
- Thread starter Emirikol
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Kalendraf
Explorer
Most of the bard multiclass options I've seen revolve around archer bard varients. Here's a few:
Bard/Barbarian - Fight & Sing while you're at it. Main problem is that you may not have enough high stats to fund Strength, Dex, Con & Charisma to decent values.
Bard/Fighter - Uses bard songs and low level bard spells to enhance their combat. These make especially good archers. Typical build keeps fighter levels close to bard levels. Key stats are charisma & dex.
Bard/Fighter/Arcane Archer - Only available to elves or half-elves. Not sure this is as good as a Fighter/Wizard/Arcane Archer build, but it can be done. Fewer bard spells seem to make decent imbues for the arrows available to the arcane archer.
Bard/Ranger - More difficult to pull off since the stats between these two classes don't line up as well. Rangers get aid from high wisdom which is otherwise pretty worthless for a bard, while the bard's high charisma is largely useless for a ranger. However, mixing bard songs along with rangers favored enemy bonuses can lead to massive damage bonuses even at low levels.
Bard/Ranger/Arcane Archer - Again, only availabe for elves or half-elves. Similar pro/con issues as the b/f/aa version.
Bard/Rogue - As strange as it might seem, this can work. Charisma & Dex are the only required high stats, though intelligence is also useful. Likely best used in a campaign with heavy social interaction where the charisma-based skills can flourish. Lower hit points may limit their usefulness in combat.
Attempting to mix a bard with any of the other spellcasting classes is fairly pointless. You're much better off staying in bard or the other spellcasting class due to achieve higher spell level access.
Bard/Barbarian - Fight & Sing while you're at it. Main problem is that you may not have enough high stats to fund Strength, Dex, Con & Charisma to decent values.
Bard/Fighter - Uses bard songs and low level bard spells to enhance their combat. These make especially good archers. Typical build keeps fighter levels close to bard levels. Key stats are charisma & dex.
Bard/Fighter/Arcane Archer - Only available to elves or half-elves. Not sure this is as good as a Fighter/Wizard/Arcane Archer build, but it can be done. Fewer bard spells seem to make decent imbues for the arrows available to the arcane archer.
Bard/Ranger - More difficult to pull off since the stats between these two classes don't line up as well. Rangers get aid from high wisdom which is otherwise pretty worthless for a bard, while the bard's high charisma is largely useless for a ranger. However, mixing bard songs along with rangers favored enemy bonuses can lead to massive damage bonuses even at low levels.
Bard/Ranger/Arcane Archer - Again, only availabe for elves or half-elves. Similar pro/con issues as the b/f/aa version.
Bard/Rogue - As strange as it might seem, this can work. Charisma & Dex are the only required high stats, though intelligence is also useful. Likely best used in a campaign with heavy social interaction where the charisma-based skills can flourish. Lower hit points may limit their usefulness in combat.
Attempting to mix a bard with any of the other spellcasting classes is fairly pointless. You're much better off staying in bard or the other spellcasting class due to achieve higher spell level access.
LazerPointer
First Post
I'd have fun playing a Bard-Sorceror, bard-cleric, bard-rogue, or bard-fighter.
Darklone
Registered User
Hah, my favorite.
I played a Bbn1/Rog2/BardX, a bbn2/bard (big viking skald brute with greataxe), a bard/wizard... Favorite 3.0 wasa bbn1/rog3/rgr1/bardX (Favored Class bard).
Most builds worked very well. The first one was particularly effective since his spells were chosen to supplement our horrible wizard and the melee cleric while I supported the fighter, the archer and our monk in melee with whip disarms, flanking sneak attacks and now and then a nice raging charge attack into flanking position...
Forget the archer build in 3.5. Every nice archer spell the bard had in 3.0 (GMW, True Strike and other goodies) have gone. A power attacking melee bard with Heroism though and perhaps a polearm (one barbarian or fighter level is enough) can do a lot of funny things in melee since he hits pretty nicely, assuming a good strength. If everything goes bad and a real melee monster approaches, lay him down with a good joke and Tashas Laughter.
I played a Bbn1/Rog2/BardX, a bbn2/bard (big viking skald brute with greataxe), a bard/wizard... Favorite 3.0 wasa bbn1/rog3/rgr1/bardX (Favored Class bard).
Most builds worked very well. The first one was particularly effective since his spells were chosen to supplement our horrible wizard and the melee cleric while I supported the fighter, the archer and our monk in melee with whip disarms, flanking sneak attacks and now and then a nice raging charge attack into flanking position...
Forget the archer build in 3.5. Every nice archer spell the bard had in 3.0 (GMW, True Strike and other goodies) have gone. A power attacking melee bard with Heroism though and perhaps a polearm (one barbarian or fighter level is enough) can do a lot of funny things in melee since he hits pretty nicely, assuming a good strength. If everything goes bad and a real melee monster approaches, lay him down with a good joke and Tashas Laughter.
Li Shenron
Legend
I think that Bard/Rogue and Bard/Ranger could be the most interesting cases.
The Bard/Rogue is a very skillful character, only slightly worse than straight Rogue, has low-level spells to cast in light armor with no ASF and some sneak attack. I think that any level combination works well, depending if you prefer more spells or better sneak attack.
Bard/Ranger is definitely more combat-oriented, and probably more difficult to make effective. Skill lists don't mix very well between the two, so you may end up having more skills but not with max ranks. High charisma will benefit the Ranger only on the use of Animal Empathy and Handle Animal, but on the other hand you probably don't need a Wisdom higher than 12 or 13 unless most of the levels are Ranger. Again the good part of the combination comes from casting spells in light armor.
I also agree that mixing two spellcasting classes is not the best, and if one of the two is Bard with his low-level spells, the loss is ever more. However, I think that Cleric/Bard and Paladin/Bard (if you don't care about alignment) have been used since charisma has good synergy.
However, I would definitely avoid spellcasting characters and tank characters to mix with Bard
The Bard/Rogue is a very skillful character, only slightly worse than straight Rogue, has low-level spells to cast in light armor with no ASF and some sneak attack. I think that any level combination works well, depending if you prefer more spells or better sneak attack.
Bard/Ranger is definitely more combat-oriented, and probably more difficult to make effective. Skill lists don't mix very well between the two, so you may end up having more skills but not with max ranks. High charisma will benefit the Ranger only on the use of Animal Empathy and Handle Animal, but on the other hand you probably don't need a Wisdom higher than 12 or 13 unless most of the levels are Ranger. Again the good part of the combination comes from casting spells in light armor.
I also agree that mixing two spellcasting classes is not the best, and if one of the two is Bard with his low-level spells, the loss is ever more. However, I think that Cleric/Bard and Paladin/Bard (if you don't care about alignment) have been used since charisma has good synergy.
However, I would definitely avoid spellcasting characters and tank characters to mix with Bard
two
First Post
I'd never multi-class a bard. Pure power-wise, particularly in 3.5 when the bard song ramps up so nicely, pure bard will almost always be a better fighter than a fighter/bard multiclass (with the better song and more defensive spells). Maybe 1 level of fighter for a feat (if you MUST) or weapon proficiency -- not more. Delaying spells stinks. A straight bard gets new spells at levels when they are still "pretty good" for the level. Delaying spell acquisition makes bards get, for example, 2nd and 3rd level spells a few levels beyond when they are "neat" or "powerful" effects (just in general). My opinion.
Bards can still make excellent archers; their song stacks with arrow damage, and they have great buffing spells. It's not as sweet as 3.0, granted, but if your party needs an archer, pick a Bard over the fighter-based version just for greater flexibility.
Too much multi-classing robs the bard of its one great power: spellcasting in light armor. Spells are powerful in D&D. The difference between a Bard20 and, say, a Bard14/fighter4/rogue2 is going to be significant on the spell-slinging side.
Bards can still make excellent archers; their song stacks with arrow damage, and they have great buffing spells. It's not as sweet as 3.0, granted, but if your party needs an archer, pick a Bard over the fighter-based version just for greater flexibility.
Too much multi-classing robs the bard of its one great power: spellcasting in light armor. Spells are powerful in D&D. The difference between a Bard20 and, say, a Bard14/fighter4/rogue2 is going to be significant on the spell-slinging side.
The Souljourner
First Post
I'm with two on this one... don't multiclass your bard. They get so many class abilities *and* a reasonably good spell progression.... losing class levels for what, rage and one base attack bonus every 4 levels? No way man! I'm even less inclined to multiclass bards than other spellcasters, since they not only get spells but cool abilities too. You really don't want to delay getting the better bardic music abilities... they totally rock.
-The Souljourner
-The Souljourner
RiTz21
Explorer
A few month ago, we started a new D&D game and I took a Bard (for the first time since I've been playing the game for 20+ years). After 2 levels, I decided to Dual class it to Ranger.
I really like this combination - I started with two weapon combat, and just added two weapons defence for the 3rd level feat. At 2nd level, the Ranger will get me combat expertize - Archery...
After 4th level (2xBard, 2xRanger) I will probably focus on the Bard again. Note that the Ranger is awsome to help me increase SPOT to the maximum, for which it's a Class skill (unlike the Bard) - In the game, I was *always* missing on the "spot" - but since I became a Ranger, I was able it fix this annoying problem !
RiTz21
I really like this combination - I started with two weapon combat, and just added two weapons defence for the 3rd level feat. At 2nd level, the Ranger will get me combat expertize - Archery...
After 4th level (2xBard, 2xRanger) I will probably focus on the Bard again. Note that the Ranger is awsome to help me increase SPOT to the maximum, for which it's a Class skill (unlike the Bard) - In the game, I was *always* missing on the "spot" - but since I became a Ranger, I was able it fix this annoying problem !
RiTz21
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