Barbarian - Path of the Spellbreaker

[JEB]

Some players in my campaign are interested in a non-magical character that can break through magical effects, so I built the following as an experiment. My chief inspirations were the 1E Barbarian, 3E's Forsaker prestige class, the Superstitious Barbarian archetype from Pathfinder, and the Anti-Mage from this very site. I also deliberately avoided using anything from the Mage Slayer feat, as it's already generally available.

Please let me know if this subclass seems viable or not. I'm aware the below is a fairly potent set of powers, but I figure they're balanced by the fact that most of them are only available while raging (plus the special restriction on the last one). If it still seems like too much, I would appreciate any advice on fixes!

Path of the Spellbreaker
Some barbarians have so great a distrust or hatred of magic that they focus their rage against it. The Path of the Spellbreaker is for such barbarians, who become the bane of all spellcasters.

Unnatural Awareness
Starting when you choose this path at 3rd level, you can use your action to sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you. When you do so, you see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic.

In addition, you have advantage on saving throws against illusions.

Wardbreaker
Beginning at 6th level, for the duration of your rage, your melee weapon attacks ignore resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage from nonmagical weapons. In addition, your melee weapon attacks ignore any bonus to AC granted by a spell.

Resistant Rage
Starting at 10th level, you have advantage on saving throws against spells and resistance against the damage of spells while raging.

Itembreaker
Also at 10th level, your melee weapon attacks ignore a magic item's resistance to all damage.

Antimagic Fury
At 14th level, you can choose to automatically succeed on saving throws against spells of 6th level or lower when you rage. If you do so, you are also immune to all beneficial spells of 6th level or lower while raging. When your rage ends, you suffer one level of exhaustion.

 

[JEB]

Over 200 views and no comments either way? Hmm.

Anyway, after some feedback elsewhere, I was considering the following changes:
- Swapping the levels for Break Magical Defenses (which may be renamed Wardbreaker) and Resistant Rage (making them level 6 and 10, respectively).
- Adding the following to level 10: Also at 10th level, while you're raging, your melee weapon attacks ignore a magic item's resistance to all damage.

Still interested in feedback!

 

[redkobold]

I like this a lot. I was watching the Frazetta/Bakshi cartoon Fire and Ice this weekend and love the part where the Panther Lord is fighting the Ice Lord who is trying to restrain him with magic which the Panther Lord is overcoming with just willpower.

 

[JEB]

So I've updated the initial post one more time, with the changes mentioned in my second post plus a few wording tweaks. Barring a serious protest, that's probably the final version.

I like this a lot. I was watching the Frazetta/Bakshi cartoon Fire and Ice this weekend and love the part where the Panther Lord is fighting the Ice Lord who is trying to restrain him with magic which the Panther Lord is overcoming with just willpower.

Glad you like it, that's just the sort of thing I was going for!

 

[Jamie Van Doren]

I definitely like it. I have two thoughts, however helpful (or not) they may be

One - from an aesthetic perspective, I feel like it could use a bit more fluff. The descriptions feel very light in comparison to what's in the PHB, and given the nature of some of the abilities (like Wardbreaker) it could use some explanatory language (and maybe a couple of newer labels, along the lines of Wardbreaker - e.g. 10th level Talismanic Rage and 14th level Render of the Weave)

Two - it feels a little light to me for some reason. I mean, it's powerful - no doubt, but it feels a little one-dimensional. Admittedly, that May be because there isn't the fluff that I am so fond of, ha ha But from a concrete perspective Once you get Anti-Magic Rage, Resistant Rage doesn't feel as awesome. Now, if you have to fight more than one spell caster a day, then it's great to have both - but for the most part the later ability supersedes the earlier to an extent.

Oh - I do have a third :/ -- I'd move item breaker to 3rd level, only because a: it's not "that" powerful" and b: it seems to align well with the archetype and why they'd have the unnatural awareness. By the by - I like how that aligns Really well with the 1E Barbarian.

Regardless. Good work. I was wondering when someone would do a riff ont he first edition barbarian

 

[JEB]

Hi, JamesTheLion! Thanks for the feedback, and glad you like it! Good catch that this is mainly an homage to the 1E Barbarian.

Point-by-point responses:

One - from an aesthetic perspective, I feel like it could use a bit more fluff. The descriptions feel very light in comparison to what's in the PHB, and given the nature of some of the abilities (like Wardbreaker) it could use some explanatory language (and maybe a couple of newer labels, along the lines of Wardbreaker - e.g. 10th level Talismanic Rage and 14th level Render of the Weave)

You're absolutely right on the fluff. This is just barebones at this point, to lock down the rules language and the order of the features. I will likely add said fluff when I write this up for my players for my campaign.

And I like those alternate feature names! But I'll probably keep it simple, at least for now. (The name that does bug me is "Itembreaker". Wish there was a cooler generic term for "magic item". Talisman isn't bad, but that's also a specific type of magic item...)

Edit: Alternate for "Itembreaker" - "Wandbreaker"? Also specific, but I like the parallelism... or maybe something like "Wonderbreaker"?

Two - it feels a little light to me for some reason. I mean, it's powerful - no doubt, but it feels a little one-dimensional. Admittedly, that May be because there isn't the fluff that I am so fond of, ha ha But from a concrete perspective Once you get Anti-Magic Rage, Resistant Rage doesn't feel as awesome. Now, if you have to fight more than one spell caster a day, then it's great to have both - but for the most part the later ability supersedes the earlier to an extent.

It is a bit one-dimensional, but that was an unavoidable side effect of packing all those anti-magic features in there. Also, I figure a Spellbreaker is so dedicated to crushing evil wizards and the like that they don't concentrate on developing much else.

As for the Resistant Rage/Antimagic Fury bit, the second is meant to be an upgrade to the first. Antimagic Fury is carefully designed to allow you to ignore all spells requiring a save, while leaving R.R.'s resistance to spell damage unchanged. The idea is that the Spellbreaker is basically taking Resistant Rage, and cranking its resistance to saves to 11 (or is that 14?), so he can be really sure he can charge on through and get that necromancer. (Were there abilities above 14, I'd probably have an ability that DOES give temporary immunity to spell damage. Maybe.)

Oh - I do have a third :/ -- I'd move item breaker to 3rd level, only because a: it's not "that" powerful" and b: it seems to align well with the archetype and why they'd have the unnatural awareness.

Yeah, I agree that Itembreaker is very specific, and pretty minor for level 10. I almost looked at it as a "ribbon", to use Wizards' terminology from the last Unearthed Arcana. That said, I did make it something the Spellbreaker can do all the time, not only when raging, as an attempt to compensate.

But level 3 actually feels a little too low - 5E seems to expect you not to have very many magic items at that point, and being able to destroy a big bad's Sword of Plot +1 might actually be too big a deal so early in a campaign.

Now, earlier, I considered pushing it down to level 6, or even combining it with Wardbreaker (logical extension, right?), but I was worried that would make level 6 too "heavy" compared to the others. And it still might. But now I'm thinking about it again...

Edit: Actually, I just remembered that magic items are supposed to be resistant to ALL damage. Not just damage inflicted by a nonmagical weapon, but all damage period. So overcoming that is arguably a tier above Wardbreaker. As such, as minor as it is, I'm probably gonna leave it at level 10.

 

[Ezel]

It's a nice idea and good execution, but you have to consider that magic users and creatures with spells are not very present in the Monster Manual or in combat in general, you will find rarely enemies equipped with magic items. It is a very specific set of features and as with the issues of the 3.5 ranger, it requires the DM to play according to your character. It makes your character entirely focused on solving a very narrow set of problems, which is why the mage slayer feat was made so powerful, with only that in 5e your character feels like a mage slayer, without the need for an entire class or archetype.
What I think would work though is trying to find another set of things that could work well together with this type of feature, making the concept of the archetype a little more general. When making a character that has a narrow use feature in battle (for example do x when fighting big creatures), I find it a good idea to give a mirror feature that lets the character fight with equal power in the other situation (for example do y when fighting big creatures), making them have a different playstyle depending on the situation, and not strong in situation but weak in another. Differences between characters should be more about "team role" and less about "where to shine".
That said, a spellbreaker has an iron will, a very strong mind for a barbarian and enough courage to go against reality bending creatures straight ahead. As a proper mirror feature, it could be really good at frightening and goading many non-magical creatures, taking advantage of their weaker will power. Or maybe it might be a "commander" type of barbarian for example. A spellbreaker also focuses on bringing magical things back to being mundane, it might be able to treat enormous creatures as if they were smaller, and maybe make any magical creature weaker just with their presence, even those creatures with technically no magic features, like wyverns for example.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, I wrote all of this because I think your archetype is pretty good and I just wanted to give some advice!

 

[Jamie Van Doren]

What I think would work though is trying to find another set of things that could work well together with this type of feature, making the concept of the archetype a little more general. When making a character that has a narrow use feature in battle (for example do x when fighting big creatures), I find it a good idea to give a mirror feature that lets the character fight with equal power in the other situation (for example do y when fighting big creatures), making them have a different playstyle depending on the situation, and not strong in situation but weak in another. Differences between characters should be more about "team role" and less about "where to shine".

Yes. I agree. I think this is what I couldn't articulate when I was saying that it felt a little light and one dimensional.

To that end, what if you made some changes to Resistant Rage (I'm still not a fan of that name, ha ha ha )

how about:

Resistant Rage
Starting at 10th level, your fury ignites your will and steels your spirit against the the tools of spell casters and creatures of the supernatural. While raging you have advantage on will saves. Additionally, while raging you become resistant to your choice of either damage versus the natural world (i.e. Fire, Cold, Lightning, Thunder) or versus the supernatural (i.e. Necrotic, Radiant, Psychic, Force).


By making that change you gain an advantage on saving throws versus most spells there'd be the most concern about, and the damage of certain spells would be reduced. At the same time this would become helpful for fighting a wider variety of creatures without being too too powerful (hopefully )!

In terms of the name for "Item Breaker"... what about "Unbinding Strike" (or Smash or Blows). Magic is "bound" into it, so you destroy it, effectively unbinding it.... just a thought

 

[JEB]

What I think would work though is trying to find another set of things that could work well together with this type of feature, making the concept of the archetype a little more general. When making a character that has a narrow use feature in battle (for example do x when fighting big creatures), I find it a good idea to give a mirror feature that lets the character fight with equal power in the other situation (for example do y when fighting big creatures), making them have a different playstyle depending on the situation, and not strong in situation but weak in another. Differences between characters should be more about "team role" and less about "where to shine".

how about:

Resistant Rage
Starting at 10th level, your fury ignites your will and steels your spirit against the the tools of spell casters and creatures of the supernatural. While raging you have advantage on will saves. Additionally, while raging you become resistant to your choice of either damage versus the natural world (i.e. Fire, Cold, Lightning, Thunder) or versus the supernatural (i.e. Necrotic, Radiant, Psychic, Force).


By making that change you gain an advantage on saving throws versus most spells there'd be the most concern about, and the damage of certain spells would be reduced. At the same time this would become helpful for fighting a wider variety of creatures without being too too powerful (hopefully )!

Well, I get what the two of you are saying, and I do like the sound of the revised version. However, that might actually be weaker than it should be.

See, I was basing my original Resistant Rage on the Totem Warrior Barbarian, which gets resistance to all damage but psychic at level 3, and the Abjuration Wizard, which gets resistance and advantage vs. all spells (but all the time) at level 14. I figured a rage-only version of the Abjuration Wizard ability was fair for level 10 (roughly halfway between 3 and 14).

So, on further thought, it could be fair to rewrite your version as follows:
Resistant Rage
Starting at 10th level, your fury ignites your will and steels your spirit against the the tools of spell casters and creatures of the supernatural. While raging you have advantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saves. Additionally, while raging you become resistant to all damage.

That sounds pretty crazy strong, I know, but it isn't so ridiculous once you consider the Totem Warrior. Admittedly, however, that doesn't quite have the theme I think you were going for, where you choose between natural and supernatural resistance (which is cool).

However, all that aside, I have to say that I still prefer the narrower focus of my previous version. I want a Barbarian who is dedicated to smashing evil sorcerers and other spellcasting creatures, and I'm OK with them not being so good at other things. But that's just my personal preference, so if you (and Ezel, and anyone else) want to take what I started and modify it into something more flavorful and general-use, you definitely have my blessing!

In terms of the name for "Item Breaker"... what about "Unbinding Strike" (or Smash or Blows). Magic is "bound" into it, so you destroy it, effectively unbinding it.... just a thought

I like this rename, though, so I may do something with that. Thanks!

 

[the Jester]

I don't have a lot to add here- I'd have to dig out my PH to analyze this to contribute meaningfully- but I just want to say that I like the looks of it. And to mention that another inspiration for this kind of thing for me (in fiction) is Karsa Orlong, who just kind of barrels through magic, defying it en route to killing stuff.