Arrows of Spell Storing?

[Fist]

Yeah, Yeah, I know "spell storing" isn't on the ranged weapon list, but then again neither is "keen," and "speed" is (how do you get an extra attack w/ a weapon already fired?).

So, why not (50) arrows of "spell storing?"

Also, I thought I'd share that I'm intending on making an arrow head that is 12x bigger than it should be. I'll "shrink item" it to normal proportions, bind it to an arrow shaft, and when it hits...

(not as effective as dropping a 2-ton un-shrunken rock from 100ft, but more colorful).

 

[Kamard]

Also, I thought I'd share that I'm intending on making an arrow head that is 12x bigger than it should be. I'll "shrink item" it to normal proportions, bind it to an arrow shaft, and when it hits...

Now thats just unpleasant.

However, I don't think it fits the scope given by spell storing.

Using the little formula in Tome & Blood, I come up with the following that might make sense, might not:

Its shrink item (3rd level spell). Its use-activated and has the equivalent of 50 charges.

Thus, its 3 x 5 (caster level) x 1000 gp, or 15000 gp.

Now that seems excessively expensive to me, but hey, thats what I get by "da rules."

If I were going to have you make these in my campaign, I would rule that the cost is basically a +1 bonus and have the arrows deal +1d6 damage on a hit, non-elemental damage, as if you had added flaming or shocking or what have you. Really, an arrowhead made into 12x its size would be dagger sized.

Does the arrowhead get bigger inside the body after it hits, thus making it that much less easy to get said arrow out, or does it get bigger right before it hits, leaving a giant gaping bloody wound of unpleasantness?

 

[mkletch]

Yeah, Yeah, I know "spell storing" isn't on the ranged weapon list, but then again neither is "keen," and "speed" is (how do you get an extra attack w/ a weapon already fired?).

So, why not (50) arrows of "spell storing?"

We do allow it, primarily to allow cure serious wounds arrows. Fired from a subdual damage bow (since the cure heals both normal and subdual and normal damage), they can be effective, and having to switch to the subdual bow is a major trade-off. The curing arrows in MotW were just too expensive to be viable.

-Fletch!

 

[Fist]

Thanks for the supporting the idea.

Just to clarify, the "shrink item" plan is stand alone from the "spell storing" plan.

"Shrink item" is a must have spell!

 

[Kwalish Kid]

I've always allowed these in my game. However, one can only make one arrow like this at a time, not 50.

 

[Mahali]

Re: Re: Arrows of Spell Storing?

Now thats just unpleasant.

Not really. Per the rules it won't do anything for the same reason that enlarging a creature in a small cage won't hurt the creature.

 

[Gaiden]

We do allow it, primarily to allow cure serious wounds arrows. Fired from a subdual damage bow (since the cure heals both normal and subdual and normal damage), they can be effective, and having to switch to the subdual bow is a major trade-off. The curing arrows in MotW were just too expensive to be viable.

There is a very good reason those arrows are so expensive: you can fire many MANY more arrows then a caster can cast spells. I have recently been investigating archers and their potentials (doing my usual min/max work) to see exactly how balanced they are relative to other power crazy characters.

Think about this - an archer can fire something like 7 to 8 arrows per round with all of their bonuses and magic with a full attack. With many shot they can fire even more (granted at individual targets). That means that number of cure spells. A cleric - the mac of healing could NEVER cast that many healing spells. Only an epic level caster with twin spell and quicken could cast that many healing spells in one round - and he/she would be using the highest level slots to do it - all for a few low level spells, not to mention their is the limitation on the twinned spells affecting the same target and the cleric would have to be within touch range (or 30 ' if he is a heirophant or has reach spell)!

An archer could be 100's of YARDS away and could fire those arrows at multiple different targets. The healing arrows make the archer the ultimate healer actually - the balance is their extraordinarliy high cost.

I write all this to show the lack of balance by giving the spell storing ability to projectile-ammunition. In so doing you (can) GREATLY increase the range of many spells and can effectively cast many more spells that would ever be possible by even the most powerful (non-epic) casters. That in my book unbalances things - AND I MIN/MAX. Believe me, I know how to push the rules to their limits of their smackdown potential and I like doing it, and I am saying this is overpowered - that should tell you how unbalancing it would be.

A perfect case for this is the arcane archer - they in fact get this ability but notice that their caster level will be incredibly limited (I think it is possible to pull off a Wiz 10/AA 10).

For the purposes of looking at speed and I think the keen only funcitons on throwing weapons that are slashing unless you get the special DWS class ability and speed I am pretty sure only funcitons if you are wielding the weapon for the extra attack (thus only for projectile weapons - but not their ammunition - and it would be irrelevant for thrown weapons unless you wield them in melee).

If you really want to then at the very least price each arrow separately (not in bundles of 50) and follow the pricing of the heal arrows.

 

[clark411]

Man.. that'd be awesome bragging rights.. if you could leave the "normal sized" enlarged arrowhead in until you got to a tavern, you could pull it out with some dramatic gritting of the teeth and jaw and all the commoners would buy all your drinks for the rest of the night.

figuring the math however, you might need about 100-200 drinks that night to come up on top.. :\

 

[mkletch]

Think about this - an archer can fire something like 7 to 8 arrows per round with all of their bonuses and magic with a full attack. With many shot they can fire even more (granted at individual targets).

The best I can get is 9 at 20th level: 5 with a full attack using rapid shot, and four more on a haste action using manyshot. However, at this level, cure serious wounds is largely irrelevant. When you really need it (maximum of 10th or 11th level), you'll only get 4 for the rapid shot and 3 for the manyshot.

An archer could be 100's of YARDS away and could fire those arrows at multiple different targets. The healing arrows make the archer the ultimate healer actually - the balance is their extraordinarliy high cost.

However, you have to remember that the weapon still does its normal damage. Unless you have a bow that specifically does subdual damage (exhausting [MotW] or merciful [S&F]), the damage dealt by the arrow could conceivably kill the target before the healing was activated. If not, it still reduces the healing effect of the spell, so you get something approximating a cure moderate wounds instead.

I write all this to show the lack of balance by giving the spell storing ability to projectile-ammunition. In so doing you (can) GREATLY increase the range of many spells and can effectively cast many more spells that would ever be possible by even the most powerful (non-epic) casters.

Each arrow will have to be at least a +1 spell storing arrow. That is 167 each, slightly more than the cost of a scroll for a level 2 spell. Maybe not enough to balance it (17 bucks to extend the range from touch to 1100 ft.), but not a total cheese either. But you actually have to hit the target, though all of their buff defenses and such. When you consider that a miss ruins the arrow 50% of the time, the cost is not exactly trivial.

For the purposes of looking at speed and I think the keen only funcitons on throwing weapons that are slashing unless you get the special DWS class ability and speed I am pretty sure only funcitons if you are wielding the weapon for the extra attack (thus only for projectile weapons - but not their ammunition - and it would be irrelevant for thrown weapons unless you wield them in melee).

The errata for the DMG added keen as an option for any piercing weapon as well. This would support keen arrows, although a keen bow might be a stretch.

A perfect case for this is the arcane archer - they in fact get this ability but notice that their caster level will be incredibly limited (I think it is possible to pull off a Wiz 10/AA 10).

I will certainly give you this one, though. The AA ability is further limited to area spells. So you cannot use it to extend the range of a touch spell like this proposed spell-storing arrow.

If you really want to then at the very least price each arrow separately (not in bundles of 50) and follow the pricing of the heal arrows.

This is totally a house rule. If you think spell storing is too cheap, bump the price to a +2 bonus ot something. If you make spell storing so expensive that it is not practical, you might as well just remove it from the game. It would be simpler, and easier for your players to understand and agree with.

As it was, I had an Arcane Archer that bought some spell storing arrows to use with cure spells and a spare subdual damage bow. I went through several character levels (from about 15th through 21st total character level) and never used a single one. It was just never needed. Maybe at lower levels it would be more unbalancing, but at high level it was totally irrelevant. Plus, the magical bonus on the arrow prevented me from getting a +5 enhancement from my arcane archer ability. So you can't really look at this weapon or weapon modifier in a total vacuum.

-Fletch!

 

[Gez]

Curing Arrows are excellent when shot on undeads. And you don't have to worry about the arrow damage.


However, for firing healing spells at fallen comrades, I'm not sure a magic bow is necessary -- all you need to use is padded arrows, that will touch a target but not harm it; rather than using standard "I've been created to kill things" arrows.