D&D (2024) Are the new default alignments of Goblins (CN) and Kobolds (N) more consistent with their current portrayals?

[Kobold Avenger]

I noticed that some monsters in the new MM have gotten different default alignments. Most noticeable are Goblins being Chaotic Neutral (formerly Neutral Evil) and Kobolds being Neutral (formerly Lawful Evil) now.

We've certainly seen the shift of Goblins becoming an unruly trickster type fey, and Kobolds it's often been "what kind of Dragon are they influenced by". Some of the adventures that came out there's been a share of sympathetic Goblin or Kobold NPCs that might get befriended by party, and become their sidekick/minion/hireling.

I also know those have just been suggestions anyways on how to play them. But is the new suggestions more consistent with how they're typically portrayed now?

 

[TiQuinn]

My thing with goblins and kobolds is they've always been more humorous type villains to me, whether that's evil or neutral, and I think most of the media I've seen tends to portray them more that way, but it also kind of underscores how alignment just doesn't work as a concept anymore. Alignment makes sense if you're actively going to take a stance about what the game's lore says about the monster, and D&D has been shifting away from that. You know what tells me more about a monster? The picture. A good piece of art will tell me more about how a monster is intended to be portrayed, and used in the game than a two character code.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Wait what? I know alignment as a whole is a be passé (as it should be!) but I'm surprised this isn't being discussed more.

That said, absolutely it is true to say CN and N much more closely match the portrayals of both species in recent D&D-like works, and indeed, with Kobolds, I haven't seem them consistently and convincingly portrayed as LE since, like, ever... Even if we go back to Dragon Mountain, a Kobold-centric campaign and the one which really intertwined Kobolds and Dragons and was formative in their modern portrayal, didn't really have them as LE, more like, highly territorial and somewhat xenophobic N. The 4E products featuring them didn't really portray them as convincing LE either.

Goblins were convincingly CE in some 3.XE and PF1 products, but those products were often so "keen" on goblins you could see they wanted them to be a more "playable" alignment, and I think it helped push them into being increasingly seen as a player race (hell, had 5E 2024 stayed in playtest a year longer, I am convinced Goblin would be a PHB race, not Orc).

 

[Scribe]

My Goblins were already CN.

I don't use Kobolds much, nor N Alignment...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

These are both good default alignments in my mind and I can't think of any existing adventures I'm familiar with where it clashes with how they're portrayed.

I think every table that's suffered through "that's what my Chaotic Neutral character would do" folks would likely agree that the Phandelver goblins can be made to work in that vein. Just need to add a bit of giggling and laughing.

 

[Bolares]

This is what the Monster Manual has to say about alignment, specially the neutral one:

"The alignment specified in a monster’s stat block is a default suggestion of how to roleplay the monster, inspired by its traditional role in the game or real-world folklore. Change a monster’s alignment to suit your storytelling needs. The Neutral alignment, in particular, is an invitation for you to consider whether an individual leans toward one of the other alignments."

 

[Bae'zel]

Neutral is better to me because I love the Reaction table from older D&D and OSR games.

I've experienced and ran many fantastic, memorable dungeon adventures when the Goblins (or Kobolds, or Orcs or whatever) wanted to ally with the PCs due to circumstance, luck or convenience.

 

[Charlaquin]

Default alignments are dumb and should be ignored anyway

 

[Kurotowa]

I like the new alignments. Goblins being chaos gremlins is more interesting, more in line with current popular culture depictions, and moving away from tropes with dark histories.

While we're on the topic, I like that genies aren't polarized into good and evil variants anymore. In the new book, Marid are still CN but the other three are just straight Neutral. All the better for individual genies to be allies or enemies, while making the City of Brass being an interplanar trading hub make sense.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I like the new alignments. Goblins being chaos gremlins is more interesting, more in line with current popular culture depictions, and moving away from tropes with dark histories.

While we're on the topic, I like that genies aren't polarized into good and evil variants anymore. In the new book, Marid are still CN but the other three are just straight Neutral. All the better for individual genies to be allies or enemies, while making the City of Brass being an interplanar trading hub make sense.

I noticed the alignments of Genies have changed as well, one problem with Efreet especially was that there might have been too much of an overlap with Devils when they were LE as they already look a lot like them. Of course just because Efreet and Dao are Neutral now, doesn't necessarily mean they're "nice" now.