Level Up (A5E) Are expertise die *that* much better than proficiencies?

[xiphumor]

Looking through the always-helpful Homebrew and Hacking, and I can't help but notice that expertise dice are rated as being twice as valuable as proficiencies. This seems odd to me, as the average roll of your first expertise die in a skill only adds 2.5 to your roll, which is basically equivalent to being proficient in a skill for the first 8 levels of the game. Am I missing something?

I ask because I'm designing a heritage right now and I'm trying to decide whether to grant proficiencies or expertise dice.

 

[Steampunkette]

The average roll is 2.5, but that means 50% of the time you're getting a 3 or 4, which is significantly more than you otherwise would.

Add in layers of expertise from allies and specialization, it can quickly grow to a d6 or even d8. So while it may initially -appear- to be equal to or lesser than a proficiency bonus, its higher potential values and easy of stacking make it stronger fairly quickly.

 

[Stalker0]

Specialization is more powerful than generalization in dnd. Expertise in a skill you use all the time (like stealth or perception) is worth way more than a proficiency you use only once in a while

 

[noodohs]

Expertise is really less about being better at a skill and more about specializing in a particular aspect of a skill. Sure, sometimes you'll get expertise in an entire skill (and keep in mind that's usually on top of proficiency), but usually it's more about customizing your character to the specific idea you want. For example, my character might be especially good at dealing with dragons or they might have more history knowledge about a particular area or monster species, etc.

 

[xiphumor]

Expertise is really less about being better at a skill and more about specializing in a particular aspect of a skill. Sure, sometimes you'll get expertise in an entire skill (and keep in mind that's usually on top of proficiency), but usually it's more about customizing your character to the specific idea you want. For example, my character might be especially good at dealing with dragons or they might have more history knowledge about a particular area or monster species, etc.

Sure, but I was referring to times when the expertise die is applied to the skill as a whole.

 

[noodohs]

Again, usually it's on top of proficiency, not instead of it. Not always, but frequently if not most of the time. At early levels in particular, even with only 1d4 for expertise, you're still basically doubling your proficiency bonus.

 

[Steampunkette]

Again, usually it's on top of proficiency, not instead of it. Not always, but frequently if not most of the time. At early levels in particular, even with only 1d4 for expertise, you're still basically doubling your proficiency bonus.

In the Homebrew and Hacking guide by PJ Coffey (Great designer and editor) they list proficiency and expertise bonuses as having different values in mechanical design.

Specifically, with a Proficiency of +2 or an Expertise of 1d4 the d4 is always stronger. Because while you've got a 50% chance of getting more than a proficiency bonus' worth of value, you only have a 25% chance of getting -less- than a proficiency bonus's value.

So when you're choosing whether or not to give, for example, elves Proficiency in Perception -or- Expertise in Perception as a heritage benefit, proficiency has a lower point value when trying to decide how strong or weak a given heritage benefit is.