Anti-Illithid tactics

[andargor]

Our group will soon be facing Illithids. Now, I think we are particularly weak to face them. This is our party composition:

- Clr8
- Ftr8
- Mnk1/Wiz5/Elem Savant2
- Rog5 (unsure)

Obviously, SR 25 and Mind Blast at will make us a little nervous. Also, as I understand Illithids surround themselves with thralls for protection. This make an encounter with one, let alone two, Illithids difficult for our level.

The wizard is more of a "utility" mage, and is very weak physically (the "nerd" type of mage). The combat spells he knows are mostly fire/evocation types (Fireball, Explosive Cascade, etc.) Here are relevant 3rd and 4th level spells:

3rd

Blink
Dispel Magic
Fireball
Gaseous Form
Haste
Invisibility Sphere
Scintillating Sphere (MoF)
Suggestion

4th

Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Explosive Cascade (MoF)
Greater Mark of Earth (BoEM)
Improved Invisibility
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Zone of Speed (BoEM)

Very few spells do not allow SR, so direct or damaging spells will not be effective. The wizard needs to roll 18 or better to beat the Illithid's SR (the cleric 17 or better).

The only relevant feats the wizard has is Extend Spell and Energy Substitution (fire), so they are not directly useful.

The Zone of Speed spell is interesting, as it does not allow for saves nor SR. The wizard can "set" a movement speed within a 20' diameter sphere. This could be used to "pin" the Illithid in a spot for up to 10 rounds using a setting of "1 foot per round", if it is centered on it. Reach weapons could be used to attack it, without fear from it's Mind Blast and Extract abilities. Of course, any thralls would have to be dealt with.

The Will +9 save would make Charm Monster difficult, especially during combat, since it would get a +5 to save, and SR would have to be overcome.

As I see it, Illithids should be attacked at range. Closing with them would be difficult, considering fighters have poor will saves against Mind Blast. The Rogue should be effective at this.

I am not sure of how the Cleric may help. Perhaps bolstering the fighter against Mind Blast somehow? He is neutral, but does not animate dead. So undead tactics will probably not be used.

So, have any of you had experience dealing with Illithids at CL 8 with a 4 character party? What were the tactics used? We may encounter them at random, with very little preparation. Or there may be situations where we may prepare an assault. We are currently underground.

Lastly, would a Minor Globe of Invulnerability protect against a Mind Blast? What's the "spell level" of it? (We use the "psionics are the same as magic" rule).

Thanks for your input!

Andargor

 

[Nifft]

Spell Immunity, from an 8th level Cleric, allows you to specify 2 spells to which the subject is immune. Ask your DM if you can pick Mind Blast and Dominate Person. (The SRD says that it does work against innate spell-like abilities.)

If the Cleric has 3 4th level spells, he can protect most of the party.

Improved Invis. + Rogue + Shortbow = fun for the Rogue, and death for the Mind Flayers.

The Wizard should stay at range, and kill the minions with fire effects.

-- Nifft

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Present your weakest party member as a gift and beg for mercy.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The rogue with improved invisibility is indeed one of the best candidates for actually taking out an illithid. SR will get in the way of spells, and those damn tentacles get in the way of melee.

If the fighter finds himself in close, he might actually consider using a trip attack. The mind flayer's strength and dexterity are good, but not all that great, and a prone 'flayer is unlikely to be able to reach your skull with those damn tentacles. Sure, he can get up, but that loses him his full attack. When using this tactic, consider saving it for your second attack per round, since you can still probably make the touch attack with the -5 penalty.

Buffing up the Will saves of the rogue and the fighter, or giving them spell immunity to at least the thing's charm monster ability, will be important. If the fighter turns on you, you're dead if you stay and he's dead if you leave. Suggestion and plane shift are good choices for other things to be immune to. (Your DM may or may not have realized that plane shift is usable on others to just get rid of them, but mind flayers get it at will and it's a tough save). Spell immunity won't protect you from plane shift, but dimensional anchor will. Unfortunatly it will also keep you from being dimension doored.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Lastly, would a Minor Globe of Invulnerability protect against a Mind Blast? What's the "spell level" of it?

Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't have one. Which means it isn't 3rd level or below, nor is it 4th level or below (can't be either of those if you don't have a level). Which means neither minor globe nor spell immunity works.

Even if it did have a level, that level would almost certainly be 5 (since it normally costs 9 power points to use). Still no good.

 

[Norfleet]

Use Gaseous Form upon the fighter.

Haste for Fighter and Rogue.

Spell Immunity for the Fighter and Rogue would also make good picks. The wizard and cleric, with their superior will saves, are not really at risk here, but more never hurts.

Improved Invis for the Rogue and Wizard. This will probably tie up your L4 capability.
You didn't list this, but if available, you can deploy L2 standard Invis on your cleric and fighter as well.

Your group should now be undetected, assuming you have managed to cloak everyone with Imp. Invis/Invis/Gaseous.

The fighter should move to establish a vertical envelopment position over the target flayer. If the ceiling is sufficiently high, in excess of 50 feet or so, he should position himself at a high altitude. If the ceiling is not high, he should merely position himself such that he can land near a flayer.

That means it's surprise and terror time.

The Rogue should begin by launching 2x +3d6 sneak attacks at range. Firing a typical CSB, assuming no outstanding bonusses, it's not unreasonable to expect at least one hit, for an average of 14 damage.

I think the dismissal of a spell involves slightly more than a free action.

The wizard should now dismiss gaseous form. The fighter should be ready for this, and will plummet to the ground as gravity reasserts itself upon his now solid form. If going for a high-altitude assault, land on a flayer, inflicting large amounts of falling object damage. If going for a low-altitude assault, land and attack. Shouting "DEATH FROM ABOVE!" as a free action is optional for the fighter.

In the event of a successful high-altitude assault, both targets will probably prone as a result.

Regardless, the fighter should accept the penalty for being prone, if prone, and attack under haste at -4 against the probably also prone flayer, at +4, for no net bonus or penalty. If the aerial assault failed, the fighter will be at -4 net.

In the surprise round, the fighter will therefore be expected to attack 2 or 3 times: once as part of falling, once as a standard attack, once for haste. Falling for something like 5d6 damage has an expected yield of 17 points of damage. Two attacks, with at least one expected hit, by a typical greatsword wielding lug at +5strength is expected to inflict another 2d6+5, so we'll say an expected yield of 12.

The fighter should now use his free 5' step(roll?), if available, to disengage from the flayer and roll towards a new flayer, if one exists, or at least to get out of the way.

Cleric should charge invisibly, smashing into the target flayer, perhaps attacking at +4 for a prone victim. We expect a hit.

As an average case, against your typical 44hp flayer, we can expect to scratch one flayer. If that was the only flayer, you have now neutralized the flayer, and spared the lives of the poor, mind-controlled sods. Congratulations!

If not, round 1 opens with another sneak attack volley against a new flayer, a fighter performing either a step and full attack, or move/charge and attack, and the cleric should also do the same. Sleep is a helpful option for the wizard to consider if the thralls appear susceptible and the demise of all of the flayers doesn't seem sufficiently imminent. Crossbow sniping of a flayer that bucks the odds is another possibility.

Hopefully, you won't be running into too many of these things, and the cloaked blitz ought to allow you to take out as many flayers as possible. With the flayers down and out, the thralls should be liberated from their control, and therefore be considered overcome as a challenge. Free experience, and you didn't even have to kill anyone for it!

At this point, they should be suitably grateful to you and offer some kind of reward, or at least be useful as human shields later.

And remember: Surprise and terror!

Fireball and burning hands are options to consider after the battle if anyone is hungry and up for fried calamari.

 

[daemonslye]

Andargor,

While the prospect of fighting one or two (watch those EL
ranges DM!) flayers is daunting, you have won the most critical
phase of the match - you know what you are up against
(assuming these are indeed what you face...).

I rather doubt you will have the luxury of surprise when facing
these creatures - they simply plan too well. After many
encounters over the years with illithids, I can say protection
of your combat assets is the most important tactic.

Again, because you will not know when they are coming, you
will more than likely be surprised by the flayers. Always
remember, "thrall" can be almost any creature - not just
humanoids.

I would caution you to load up on dispel magic and haste;
with the cleric focusing on dispel magic and buffs such as
owls wisdom to boost his/her (and your) will saves.

Out of the monster manual, mind blast is a spell-like ability
and, thus, may be dispelled. Another concept would be to
charm your own party (assuming they would agree - this
could be unlikely), this could allow you to somewhat counter
a charm thrown at your fighter (possibly preserving a dispel -
the old "charm contention rule" goes into effect).

More standard tactics - always start with haste on yourself;
The cleric will focus on keeping the fighter mobile with dispels.
You protect the thief - using imp. invis seems like a good tactic
but make sure you have a detect invis going to watch his
progress and allowing you to target him with your dispel
magic (imp invis is nice for sneak attacks but because mind
blast is a large cone, dont expect the rogue will stay mobile
forever). Note that a targeted dispel will always remove your
spells cast on the rogue.

Have the characters use delay to order the initiative count to
be spellcaster then combatant (with your "buddy system" in
place cleric-fighter/wizard-rogue). This allows you to buff
(or dispel) your buddy each round including the first.

Have each spellcaster in sight of the other - in the event that
one rolls poorly.

Expect the flayers to be hiding in inaccessable places - out of
melee range (until most of you stop moving).

Expect thralls to attempt to grapple you or otherwise foul
your spellcasting (if they are readying ranged attacks, move
into cover etc. as needed before casting a spell). Try to keep
your buddies together but the two groups on opposite
sides of the battle field.

Dont forget you can use a fourth level spell slot to memorize
a dispel magic (along with dim door - always take one of those).
An additional dm may be worth more than imp. invis. in the end.
You can always cast regular invis. before the rogue's attack if
you really want the extra dice. Myself, I would go with another
haste instead (for the rogue).

If you have a "good" round where none of your combatants
is charmed/stunned/etc., you might try a dispel on the flayer.
Chances are better than even that it is astrally projected,
and, if dispelled, it will *wink* out of existence (and wake up
at home rather put out with you). Note: By the PHB, SR does
not apply to dispel magic attempts (too lazy to sift through
errata, FAQ and sage opinions to cross-check).

Other items - make sure the fighter has a ranged weapon,
have backup ranged weapons if possible (sundering thralls),
don't blow out the stops (ie. casting haste) until you are
certain you are facing the "real" flayers (when you start
making will saves is a good clue), write as many dispel magic
scrolls as you can and keep them handy, get the fly spell,
carry plenty of throwable magical light if you (or your archers)
dont have low light vision, and finally, after you "kill" them,
always watch your back - because you only killed a projection -
not the actual creature.

Oh, and don't let your DM read this. ;^)

~D

If you and the cleric, through some twist of the laws of
murphy, both fail will saves in the same round...
If I were the rogue, I would have a potion of invis and a
fast pair of boots - Charm is "close" range, blast is only 60',
and the day I can't outrun a fighter is the day I get my
brain eaten by a.... well you get the picture.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Out of the monster manual, mind blast is a spell-like ability
and, thus, may be dispelled.

I wouldn't count on your DM seeing it this way. The language in the MM is ambiguous as to whether 3d4 rounds is the duration of the mind blast or simply the severity of the stunning effect caused by an instantaneous effect.

If it were me, I would take it to be the latter (as is indeed said explicitly in the Psionics Handbook version), which means that once the blast occurs, there's no effect there to be dispelled. And since it is a spell-like ability, it cannot be counterspelled either. So dispel magic wouldn't work at all.

 

[Tiberius]

Also, expect to see the mind flayers again and again, even if you do slay them. There is no good reason for the creatures to actually be fighting you in person when they could instead Plane Shift to somewhere friendly and use their Astral Projection ability to fight you. Thus, even if you do kill them, you will have only slain their astral form. Regrettably, illithid have Astral Projection at will as an SLA, so you can expect to be harrassed until you are a meal for the creatures.

At least, this would be the case if I were the DM. Your play style may vary.

-Tiberius

 

[Darklone]

Send hordes of undeads against them.