Angels vs. Demons and Devils.

[Alexander123]

Can someone tell me why angels were made more powerful than their demon counterparts by giving them the ability to cast spells as various level clerics. A Solar can cast cleric spells as a level 20 cleric while the Balor cannot.

 

[Alexanderone]

becuse angels weren't really desgined to be fought so i guess balancing isn't an issue.

 

[bobhayes]

World balance. Balor will not limit their behavior on the mortal plane, while Solars will - so if the two have equivalent powers, the infernal forces will run wild. Which might be a fun campaign, briefly...

Shorter answer: players usually fight Balor, not Solars, and if Balors had 20 cleric levels the players would always lose.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Can someone tell me why angels were made more powerful than their demon counterparts by giving them the ability to cast spells as various level clerics. A Solar can cast cleric spells as a level 20 cleric while the Balor cannot.

Because good is supposed to triumph over evil, in the end?

 

[Alexander123]

Ahh, I thought there was a reason.

 

[Sekhmet]

Summon Demon (Sp): Once per day a balor can automatically summon 4d10 dretches, 1d4 hezrous, or one nalfeshnee, glabrezu, marilith, or balor. This ability is the equivalent of a 9th-level spell.

Balor summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor...


Balor is CR20, Solar is CR23, a difference that can mean life or death in some situations. However, with the Balor able to summon extras to help, the Solar would quickly be overrun. The Balor's Flaming Body (6d6 Fire damage per round) and Explosive Death (100 damage explosion when it dies) would quickly add up as well.
Balors also have vorpal weapons.

With no metamagic feats, the Solar would quickly fall behind in his ability to cope with the Balor's damage output.

 

[Axel]

Balor summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor...


With no metamagic feats, the Solar would quickly fall behind in his ability to cope with the Balor's damage output.

I disagree, though metamagic feats will make the Solar more effecetive. 4+ level 9 Divine Spells would let the Solar keep up easily, unless the DM is a fool. Summon Monster IX is pretty good, and lets the Solar occupy the Balor with big gribblies while the Solar casts Forbiddance. Then it's game over for the Balor.

As a party member, I would infinitely prefer to fight a Balor (plus friends) than a Solar, or any other level 20 Cleric.

Good > Evil in almost any fantasy setting.

 

[Sekhmet]

I disagree, though metamagic feats will make the Solar more effecetive. 4+ level 9 Divine Spells would let the Solar keep up easily, unless the DM is a fool. Summon Monster IX is pretty good, and lets the Solar occupy the Balor with big gribblies while the Solar casts Forbiddance. Then it's game over for the Balor.

As a party member, I would infinitely prefer to fight a Balor (plus friends) than a Solar, or any other level 20 Cleric.

Good > Evil in almost any fantasy setting.

Typical Cleric spells prepared do not include Forbiddance or Summons.
Typical spell lists are standard for any given day, though I understand, given the proper notice, the spell list could change to reflect the tasks of the day.

I am not suggesting that the Solar has no chance against Balor, nor am I suggesting that they are weak in any way. I am merely playing the Devil's (Demon's?) Advocate and suggesting the Balor isn't the Solar's bitch, so to speak.

 

[Empirate]

Balor summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor, which summons Balor...

Summon

A creature with the summon ability can summon specific other creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature’s entry). Roll d%: On a failure, no creature answers the summons. Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A creature that has just been summoned cannot use its own summon ability for 1 hour. Most creatures with the ability to summon do not use it lightly, since it leaves them beholden to the summoned creature. In general, they use it only when necessary to save their own lives. An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Concentration checks and attempts to dispel the summoned creature. No experience points are awarded for summoned monsters.

Important bit bolded. However, there's no duration on a Balor's Summon ability, so if he has time and good relations to lots of other Balors...

 

[Sekhmet]

I'd never noticed that bold part, Empirate. Thanks for clarification.

It is important to note that the Balor and the Solar are not similar CR's. 3 points difference makes for a difficult comparison. Anyone have a higher CR Demon/Devil or lower CR Angel to compare with? I can't seem to locate my book with CR20ish Devils/Angels.

If I recall, Alastor "The Grim" Executioner of Hell is CR23, like the Solar, but it would be silly to compare the two.