An alternative elf based on Norse legends

[Erekose]

My other thread, "An alternative dwarf based on Norse legends", has got me thinking about tailoring the elf in a similar fashion.

This is a much more difficult prospect since Norse legends tend to mention elves only in passing and even then just as an opposite of dwarves.

So here’s my suggestion for a more Norse version of the standard elf (I’ll repeat all of the standard elf abilities retained in this version for completeness).

+4 Charisma, –2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence. Norse elves have powerful personalities and personify beauty; however they are less tied to the physical world than other races and their preference of experience over formal teaching limits their ability to learn new things.

Medium size: Norse Elves have a base land speed of 30 feet.

Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

Low-light vision (Ex): Norse Elves can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of shadowy illumination. They retains the ability to distinguish colour and detail under these conditions.

Luminescence (Sp): As a luminescent being, a Norse Elf can radiate light the equivalent of a torch, shedding bright light in a 20-foot radius (and dim light for an additional 20 feet). A Norse Elf may shine for up to 10 minutes per character level per day (this time can be broken up and used at different times throughout the same day). In all other ways this effect works like the light spell.

Light resistance (Ex): A Norse Elf cannot be blinded by natural or magical light. A Norse Elf only takes half damage from a spell with the light descriptor that causes damage (and no damage on a successful save when a successful save would normally cause half damage).

+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An Norse Elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he or she were actively looking for it.

Favoured Class: Sorcerer.

As before, is this a reasonable LA+0 race? Is it too powerful? Too weak?

A point to consider, would it make the race too powerful if "Luminescence" was based on the spell daylight rather than light? If not, this would nicely link a key Norse Elf strength with a key Norse Dwarf weakness! (i.e. it would help explain the underlying tension between the two races.)

Cheers!

 

[Erekose]

Bump! No comments? Is that because my suggested race is obviously OK or obviously not OK?

 

[glass]

Bump! No comments? Is that because my suggested race is obviously OK or obviously not OK?

I'd say its fine apart from that +4 Cha. That is huge for a sorcerer, probably too good.

Also, if the Luminescence ability can be turned on and off at will, then it is probably supernatural rather than spell like, and you need to specify what sort of action it takes to turn it on and off.

BTW, weren't elves and dwarves more-or-less interchangable in Norse mythology?


glass.

 

[Erekose]

Thanks glass! I take your point with regards to the spell-like/supernatural ability. However, I would still like to retain the +4 Charisma; it doesn't seem too good a trade off against -2 CON and -2 INT.

BTW, weren't elves and dwarves more-or-less interchangable in Norse mythology?

If memory serves, dwarves and elves are the maggots that crawled out of Ymir's dead flesh. Some were beautiful (the elves of light - elves) and the others were hideous and disfigured (the elves of darkness - dwarves).

Other than being associated with the gods Njord/Frey/Freya, the elves of light never get much of mention from that point on.

 

[Erekose]

Any other comments? I'd particularly like feedback on on the luminescence ability (re: light or daylight.

Cheers!

 

[Afrodyte]

Interesting. Not precisely my thing, but I'd probably use them before I use the PHB elves. By the way, if you want a name more evocative than "Norse elves," perhaps Liosalfar (light elves) would serve since that's the Scandinavian name used for them.

There is something about the ability modifiers that rubs me the wrong way. While the penalties are mechanically balanced, I don't think it really emphasizes the idea you're trying to make with them being more otherworldly than this-worldly. I believe there's a different way to go about bringing out their detachment from physical reality than a -2 Constitution. Now, if you said that elves are not as tied to the physical world, so they are not as physically powerful or robust as the average human, that's a different story. You could justify a -2 Strength instead. Why the penalty to Strength before one to Constitution? Well, the idea of elves being less physically powerful (Strength) strikes me as more fitting to them than them being less physically resilient (Constitution). I don't know why. Maybe it's just the idea that I find it harder to imagine elven bodybuilders than elven marathon runners.

As far as the bonuses, I think that the bonus to Charisma is spot-on as far as the concept is concerned. However, combined with their substantial penalties, trying to make an elven character that is anything besides a bard is asking for trouble. Why bard? The bard is the only class that has a high enough HD and enough skill points that you have a penalty to Constitution and Intelligence and not shoot yourself in the foot if you don't roll very high (13+ for all stats), if you have less than 30-point buy, or if your character concept calls for Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom to be higher than average. In addition, you list the favored class as sorcerer, which is just about the only class where penalties to Constitution and Intelligence act as more of a deterrant than the Charisma bonus does an incentive to take the class. I'm not saying you should use anything not immediately related to class effectiveness as dump stats, but don't make it so that you have to spread your highest scores so thin just to be effective, let alone keep up with the rest of the group. I'd suggest the following attribute adjustments for an LA +0 light elf: +2 Charisma, -2 Strength. If you wanted, I think you could add a +2 Wisdom and still be OK. In fact, a +2 Wisdom would be right up their alley since it helps with awareness and intuition; these are traits I would definitely associate with the otherworldly creatures you describe.

Luminescence is really cool. If you wanted to adjust the potency of the ability, why not make it scale with level? Starts out as light at 1st level, then goes up to daylight at some other time? Light resistance is pretty neat too, although a bit limited in scope. Maybe youd could tie it to their luminescence trait.

Aside from the resistance to enchantment spells and effects, the standard PHB elf traits don't really make sense for these elves. At least, not from what you have so far. A flavor text writeup would work wonders for showing the main differences between Liosalfar and PHB high elves. If you wanted to show their more magical natures, perhaps granting more magic-related traits would be ideal.

As you have it now, I think they're a bit weak, but with a few minor changes and a few more extras, you'll be good to go.

 

[Enkhidu]

Something to think about: there are several types of elves in Scandanavian tradition, ranging from those in alfheim (which you seem to be trying to reproduce), to the hill elves (the tricksters of hills and forests), and the dock alfar (dark elves, which were interchangeable with dwarves).

I recommend begging, borrowing, or stealing the old 2e Vikings handbook. It might give you some more ideas.

 

[Erekose]

There is something about the ability modifiers that rubs me the wrong way. While the penalties are mechanically balanced, I don't think it really emphasizes the idea you're trying to make with them being more otherworldly than this-worldly. I believe there's a different way to go about bringing out their detachment from physical reality than a -2 Constitution. Now, if you said that elves are not as tied to the physical world, so they are not as physically powerful or robust as the average human, that's a different story. You could justify a -2 Strength instead. Why the penalty to Strength before one to Constitution? Well, the idea of elves being less physically powerful (Strength) strikes me as more fitting to them than them being less physically resilient (Constitution). I don't know why. Maybe it's just the idea that I find it harder to imagine elven bodybuilders than elven marathon runners.

Thanks Afrodyte. I had thought of giving the ability penalty to strength but then shyed away from it - given the impact it has on the game. However, as you've pointed out penalties to both constitution and intelligence might limit them more.

-2 Strength; +4 Charisma may limit them as front line fighters but does make them more viable to more other classes.

 

[Erekose]

Interesting. Not precisely my thing, but I'd probably use them before I use the PHB elves. By the way, if you want a name more evocative than "Norse elves," perhaps Liosalfar (light elves) would serve since that's the Scandinavian name used for them.

This race and the version of dwarves I posted elsewhere are intended for a homebrew campaign where they have different names and a full backstory. The lack of flavour text here was really just to focus the mind on balancing the races from a rules point of view and the names were jsut meant to simplify things (i.e. give people a sense of what they are without lots of detail).

 

[Erekose]

Luminescence is really cool. If you wanted to adjust the potency of the ability, why not make it scale with level? Starts out as light at 1st level, then goes up to daylight at some other time?

For the "Norse Dwarf" I am going to use the suggestion that they gain a key ability after 12 class levels (i.e. the ability to make magical items without having to know spells like the Warlock from Complete Arcane ). In a similar way, perhaps luminescence could scale up after 12 character levels to have an effect like daylight?

Aside from the resistance to enchantment spells and effects, the standard PHB elf traits don't really make sense for these elves. At least, not from what you have so far. A flavor text writeup would work wonders for showing the main differences between Liosalfar and PHB high elves. If you wanted to show their more magical natures, perhaps granting more magic-related traits would be ideal.

Fair comment! How about replacing the "Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects and the +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks" with the a more simplified:

+2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities

This reflects the overall otherworldly nature of their minds which is why magical effects that require a Will save have less effect than on other races.