Alternate Freddy vs. Jason ending [Spoilers]

[Kai Lord]

Has anyone rented or purchased the DVD of Freddy vs. Jason and watched the alternate ending? Does if feature a different victor?

 

[Villano]

If you mean the rumors that they filmed different endings to the final fight...NO. I think we can stack that one away with the other studio-generated, "let's get some publicity" rumors like Daphney's nude butt scene supposedly cut from Scooby-Doo (that one went so far as to have Sarah Michelle Gellar claiming that she had a body double for that scene). Yeah, sure .

There is an alernate, original, ending on the disc, however, and it is possible to interpret it as "a clear winner" sort of thing. The alternate ending goes like this:

Spoiler

Monica Keena, a.k.a. the terribly untalented lead actress, and her boyfriend finally decide to have sex. They start and he immediately begins to get rough. She tells him to stop, he sits up and raises his hand in the air, "Freddy" claws grow out of his fingers, she screams, he slashes, and credits start.

If we put that together with the final fight, we have Freddy and Jason going into the water and then the love scene/nightmare. You can sort of view it as Freddy winning because we never see Jason again.

The ending was cut because audiences reacted badly to it. Supposedly, they were confused as to whether the guy was possessed by Freddy or that the girl will become pregnant with Freddy's baby, but I think they didn't like it simply because it's a pretty bad ending. The last thing they wanted to see was more of Keena's bad acting. Plus, the scene is pretty laughable because Keena refused to do nudity and is wearing a bra under her nightie. A huge, black bra. It looks flat out idiotic. Women don't wear industrial-sized bras under their nightgowns.

Most of the scenes cut were cut because they didn't add anything. They were just filler clipped out for time reasons (do we really need to see the girls driving to the rave or the people walking up stairs?). The ending and beginning (yes, there's an alternate beginning) are the only things cut that were drastically different. As I said, the original ending kind of sucked and I'm glad it was axed. However, the original beginning was, imho, much better that the way the film begins now.

The way the movie starts now is with Freddy talking to the camera about how he's forgotten. We then see the girl skinny dipping. We introduce Jason and she is killed.

The original drops the Freddy narration and begins with a Friday the 13th homage. The skinny dipping girl originally had much more footage revolving around her. She's a camp councelor, sneaking out to meet her boyfriend, leaving the kids unattended. It then goes to the skinny dipping from the movie, however, after she hears something, she runs back to the camp instead of into the woods, but the kids won't let her back in. She then runs into the woods like the movie.

The only thing I would have changed would be cutting out the part of her running back into the camp. It's an all-around better beginning than the Freddy narration because the plot is explained two or three more times in the film anyway.

There's also an Easter Egg on disc 2 with the filmmmakers explaining another ending which was never shot involving a giant cgi water hand because it would have been too expensive. It would also have been stupid, but that's just my opinion. Too much like the bursting dam cheat ending of Frankentein Meets The Wolfman.

All said, I do love the movie. Watching it is like King Kong Vs Godzilla all over again for me.

 

[Alzrius]

I pretty much agree with Villano on everything. The one thing I have to add is that absolutely none of the new scenes, including the ending, are anything new if you read the movie novelization. The author of that apparently had access to the final script before any cuts were made, and in all honesty, makes it read better than it watched (though there were a couple of places where he screwed up - such as him writing that Jason makes a bellowing roar sometimes).

I disagree on the idea of the alternate ending being interpreted as a clear winner, but that's not a discussion for this "non-spoiler" thread.

 

[Kai Lord]

I disagree on the idea of the alternate ending being interpreted as a clear winner, but that's not a discussion for this "non-spoiler" thread.

I changed the header, so spoil away. What did you think of the alternate ending?

 

[Villano]

I pretty much agree with Villano on everything. The one thing I have to add is that absolutely none of the new scenes, including the ending, are anything new if you read the movie novelization. The author of that apparently had access to the final script before any cuts were made, and in all honesty, makes it read better than it watched (though there were a couple of places where he screwed up - such as him writing that Jason makes a bellowing roar sometimes).

I disagree on the idea of the alternate ending being interpreted as a clear winner, but that's not a discussion for this "non-spoiler" thread.

I had no idea there was an F vs J novelization. Learn something new everyday.

As to my "clear winner" comment, I did say that it was a possible interpretation. If both monsters disappear and only one is seen in the final shot, it does give them the "last word" as it were. Think of the ending of King Kong VS Godzilla. Everyone assumes Kong one because he surfaces and Godzilla doesn't.

BTW, I've been reading online reviews of the dvd and no one, but no one, likes the original ending. Two others also said that they liked the original, cut beginning better.

 

[Alzrius]

I changed the header, so spoil away. What did you think of the alternate ending?

Well, as far as how I liked it, the answer is "not much". Despite the fact that the normal ending has less actually happening, it at least deals with both of the villains, albeit not definitive in what it seems to be suggesting. The alternate ending, by contrast, was not only disappointingly lacking in not showing Jason, but was also rather ambiguous in what we were being shown.

To be fair, the entire thing with the alternate ending not mentioning Jason is somewhat understandable, as (IMHO) F vs. J was a Nightmare on Elm Street movie that just happened to feature Jason (which is understandable, since the NoES people have wanted Jason to guest star since the sixth movie in that series).

As to my "clear winner" comment, I did say that it was a possible interpretation. If both monsters disappear and only one is seen in the final shot, it does give them the "last word" as it were. Think of the ending of King Kong VS Godzilla. Everyone assumes Kong one because he surfaces and Godzilla doesn't.

And if the ending of F vs. J were just that clear, I'd be inclined to agree, but circumstances about the characters themselves, and previous movies, call this heavily into question.

The normal ending, with Jason rising, whole once more, from the lake holding Freddy's severed head, which then smiles and winks at the camera, seems to portray the best possible ending - that ultimately, it's something of a draw. Depending on how you look at it in context, the alternate ending could suggest that too.

Yes, we do tend to assume that because we see Freddy (apparently) in the alternate ending, and not Jason, that could be implied that Freddy "won". However, this apparently is not definitive. We know beyond any shadow of a doubt, for example, that Jason did completely recover from the battle with Freddy, since the events of Jason X begin in the very near future, and move forward from there. Likewise, even though at the end of F vs. J we see Jason sinking into the lake, his eyes, which Freddy stabbed out, have regenerated, which would seem to imply that he's already begun to piece himself back together.

This isn't to say that Jason won either. Both endings seem to make it clear that Freddy has not been put out of commission permanently. The novelization, apparently trying to sum up previous Freddy movies, mentions that Freddy has been dragged into the real world and killed there before, and that after that happened, he eventually turned back up in dreams again. So him dying in the real world this time causes him no permanent harm.

Personally, I think the two endings work best when used together. First, we should se the shot of Jason rising from the lake, holding Freddy's head. It laughs, and then we segue to the two kids about to have sex, and Freddy's reapparance. This seems to work best in showing us an ending that showcases the fate of both villains, and the protagonists.

To me, the idea of asking whether Freddy or Jason won the fight depends on exactly how you determine what a "win" is. Neither one of them was able to kill the other, either in the dream world, or the real world. At the end of the film, both of them are apparently none the worse for wear, since Jason rises from the lake to kill again (in the next chronological movie featuring him, Jason X) and Freddy returns to finally slice the two survivors to ribbons (presumably that's what he does, anyway).

It seems rather like a cop-out to me to have the villain fight of the decade have been a draw, but really, what else could it have been? It had already been established that both Freddy and Jason were essentially unable to be permanently killed, and having one finally do the other in would have annoyed fans of that particular horror (though the upset would have been interesting).

Despite that though, I still liked the film a lot! Here's hoping for Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash!

 

[Villano]

Personally, I think the two endings work best when used together. First, we should se the shot of Jason rising from the lake, holding Freddy's head. It laughs, and then we segue to the two kids about to have sex, and Freddy's reapparance. This seems to work best in showing us an ending that showcases the fate of both villains, and the protagonists.

That isn't too bad of an ending, except I wouldn't show Jason with Freddy's head. Just Jason rising and then the Freddy sex at the end. That way each gets his own moment in the sun.

Actually, it would have been cool to see Jason emerge alone. Then we cut to a few weeks later at Camp Crystal Lake and a pair of teens having sex with Jason watching. As they sleep, Jason walks up with a spear or machete and lifts it into the air. However, just before he strikes, they scream and spurt blood. We then hear Freddy laughing as Jason looks around, pissed. Y'know, sort of a reverse of Jason stealing Freddy's victim earlier in the film.

It seems rather like a cop-out to me to have the villain fight of the decade have been a draw, but really, what else could it have been? It had already been established that both Freddy and Jason were essentially unable to be permanently killed, and having one finally do the other in would have annoyed fans of that particular horror (though the upset would have been interesting).

One of the things that bothered me about the film (aside from the need to explain the plot over and over again) was Freddy screaming, "Why won't you die!" when he himself said that Jason can never be killed.

Actually, why would an unkillable, undead guy be shocked that Jason's an unkillable, undead guy?

As to the end fight, I actually liked it. Both guys dished out and took a lot (although, watching the deleted scenes, Freddy originally did more damage) and both were still bad guys at the end (Jason was still killing people, even fighting Freddy). In most of the other scripts I've heard about, Jason turned hero. In fact, Freddy is usually the reason Jason exists (J was F's first victim, F was the camp councelor who was having sex when J drowned, F drives J to kill in his dreams, etc.).

I still stand by my feeling that this was the best film we possibly could have gotten.

Despite that though, I still liked the film a lot! Here's hoping for Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one. Maybe we'll see the return of Bad Ash.

BTW, in sort of related news, I've heard that the proposed Pinhead VS Michael Meyers flick is cancelled. I was actually looking forward to it since the studio had approached Clive Barker to write the script and John Carpenter to direct. The reason it got the axe? Moustapha Akkad, the rights holder of Halloween and the man responsible for churning out all those crappy sequels, just plain doesn't want to do it. I guess he doesn't want anything with quality associated with his franchise.

There's actually a Halloween 9 in production and, no doubt, heading direct-to-video. Heavy sigh.

 

[Tewligan]

I just died a little inside when I learned that there is a novelization of "Freddy vs. Jason". I'll buy it and put next to the novelization of "Police Academy 5" on my bookshelf.

 

[Alzrius]

I just died a little inside when I learned that there is a novelization of "Freddy vs. Jason". I'll buy it and put next to the novelization of "Police Academy 5" on my bookshelf.

Actually, it wasn't that bad. Having an omniscient third-person narration allows a novel to expound upon things that aren't immediately obvious much better than a movie. This is true here in cases of things like exactly how Jason came back from Hell, etc.

Also, the author employed a writing style I'm rapidly coming to like in contemporary gritty novels. Even though the style is, as I said, omniscient third-person narrator, the tone of said narrator is done in such a way that it almost, but not quite, seems like it's giving its own grim take on the situation. It's describing the atmosphere of a situation more than is necessary, and using a tone we woudn't normally ascribe to an omniscient perspective. Needless to say, it's great.

And honestly, dying inside is what Freddy and Jason are supposed to do to you...just not a little.

 

[Alzrius]

That isn't too bad of an ending, except I wouldn't show Jason with Freddy's head. Just Jason rising and then the Freddy sex at the end. That way each gets his own moment in the sun.

Actually, it would have been cool to see Jason emerge alone. Then we cut to a few weeks later at Camp Crystal Lake and a pair of teens having sex with Jason watching. As they sleep, Jason walks up with a spear or machete and lifts it into the air. However, just before he strikes, they scream and spurt blood. We then hear Freddy laughing as Jason looks around, pissed. Y'know, sort of a reverse of Jason stealing Freddy's victim earlier in the film.

Actually, as long as we're discussing what might/could/should have been, I think that there should have been part of the movie where Freddy manages to rip out Jason's heart (probably near that last fight, right after where he gouges out his eyes), but then is mesmerized by it, a la Jason Goes to Hell and eats it...that would either kill one or the other of them permanently...or fuse them into one!

One of the things that bothered me about the film (aside from the need to explain the plot over and over again) was Freddy screaming, "Why won't you die!" when he himself said that Jason can never be killed.

According to the novel, Freddy had forgotten what he had said before.

The novel also intimates, though it never says outright, that had Freddy been able to drown Jason in Jason's memory/nightmare where he was a little boy dying again, then that would have permanently killed Jason in the real world.

Actually, why would an unkillable, undead guy be shocked that Jason's an unkillable, undead guy?

Maybe because unkillable dead guys are rare enough that they'd each think they're the only one? Or perhaps because Freddy and Jason's particular brands of immortality are so very different.

As to the end fight, I actually liked it. Both guys dished out and took a lot (although, watching the deleted scenes, Freddy originally did more damage)

From the director's standpoint, I can understand why it seemed like Jason spent most of the fights with Freddy getting his butt kicked. In the fight in the dream world, Freddy just has more experience, and imagination, both of which would be crucial in an environment where anything you can visualize can be. Only Jason's utterly indomitable will helped him there.

Likewise, in the fight in the real world, its less about rationale and more about simply how to keep the fight going. Jason can soak up damage like a sponge does water, so there's no problem with Freddy scoring hit after hit on him. On the other hand, Freddy, in the real world, has no particular resistance to being hurt (that we know of). Given Jason's titanic strength, one or two blows would be all that would be needed then to dismember Freddy utterly. Hence, the fights would have to have Jason missing more often then not.

and both were still bad guys at the end (Jason was still killing people, even fighting Freddy). In most of the other scripts I've heard about, Jason turned hero. In fact, Freddy is usually the reason Jason exists (J was F's first victim, F was the camp councelor who was having sex when J drowned, F drives J to kill in his dreams, etc.).

I agree that it was a good move that they kept Jason as a clear-cut bad guy. There was no way Jason could have been Freddy's first victim though, either when he was alive or dead, since Freddy always killed his victims, and we already knew how Jason died.

I still stand by my feeling that this was the best film we possibly could have gotten.

Agreed.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one. Maybe we'll see the return of Bad Ash.

Boy would that be something, especially since he lived (and died) in 1300 AD.

BTW, in sort of related news, I've heard that the proposed Pinhead VS Michael Meyers flick is cancelled.

I can't bring myself to be too upset over this, since I'm not much of a fan of either film series.