D&D General Alternate "Ability Scores"

[Reynard]

Spinning out of the "Immersion" thread:

I think D&D's six ability scores have outlived their usefulness. I think we need a different way to quantify competence in specific areas that don't "force" certain role-playing requirements on players (especially in the case of the "mental" ability scores).

The easiest thing to do would be to eliminate them entirely and then pare down the skill list to reflect what people actually do while adventuring. You could probably get away with maybe 6 or 8 broad skills (Athletics, Awareness, Interaction, Knowledge, Survival/Woodcraft/something, Thievery) plus two saves (Physical and Mental) and a level bonus (the true measure of competence in D&D). Use feats to provide specialties ("Trapsmith: advantage when using Thievery to disarm Traps"; "Strong: +2 on Athletics rolls to lift and for grappling). Oh, and get ride of the worst element of 5E design: the tool proficiency.

No more "You 6 int barbarian wouldn't think of that plan!"

 

[DEFCON 1]

The easiest thing to do would be to eliminate them entirely and then pare down the skill list to reflect what people actually do while adventuring. You could probably get away with maybe 6 or 8 broad skills (Athletics, Awareness, Interaction, Knowledge, Survival/Woodcraft/something, Thievery) plus two saves (Physical and Mental) and a level bonus (the true measure of competence in D&D). Use feats to provide specialties ("Trapsmith: advantage when using Thievery to disarm Traps"; "Strong: +2 on Athletics rolls to lift and for grappling). Oh, and get rid of the worst element of 5E design: the tool proficiency.

Congratulations... you've invented the game FATE.

 

[collin]

Or you could go the opposite direction and make the 6 stats more relevant, like Castles & Crusades. I think by using FATE or C&C or some other alternate system, there is plenty out there for players to choose from. No need to reinvent D&D (just yet), although that may be part of the plan for the next revision. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what WotC has in mind.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Congratulations... you've invented the game FATE.

Not just FATE, but really a lot of modern RPGs generally take this approach of having a few broadly-defined stats, which in some cases aren't even abilities, they might be resources, or status or something, and they're the main thing you roll, and they can have specialities and/or special abilities that enhance them and so on.

 

[Reynard]

Congratulations... you've invented the game FATE.

FATE is a great game, but it's defining feature isn't really it's approach to skills -- it's Aspects, which are a whole different thing (that can be incorporated easily into other games, including D&D).

I just don't think that Ability Scores are actually necessary to accomplish what D&D is aiming for. After all, in the original edition they were nearly irrelevant given how high or low they had to be to offer any modifiers.

 

[Charlaquin]

As much as I would love to jettison the D&D ability scores, they’re as central to D&D’s identity as the 9 alignments - maybe even more central. So I don’t think they’ll ever be cut from the official game. House ruling them away is an option, but I imagine doing so would require such extensive changes that you’d be better off going with another rules system.

I think the best we can hope for is that the abilities get phased out of relevance, just like alignment did. They can become purely descriptive, while the things they used to modify (attacks, checks, saves, certain derived traits like HP) could become purely factors of class, proficiencies, and level.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I don't think D&D itself is ever going to change, nor do I really want it to (there are LOTS of other places to scratch other itches) but it's still an interesting discussion.

Instead of replacing ability scores with skills, I'd replace them with something of the same flavor, but less specific, that can't really be measured.

Strength, for example, I might replace with Might.

I think that allows more leeway in how we imagine and narrate our mechanical differences. Maybe you do +2 damage because you are physically stronger. But maybe it's because you are more ferocious. Or the gods are on your side. Or whatever.

I don't know what the other 5 would be, but the goal is the same: more versatile narration.

 

[Aldarc]

Spinning out of the "Immersion" thread:

I think D&D's six ability scores have outlived their usefulness. I think we need a different way to quantify competence in specific areas that don't "force" certain role-playing requirements on players (especially in the case of the "mental" ability scores).

The easiest thing to do would be to eliminate them entirely and then pare down the skill list to reflect what people actually do while adventuring. You could probably get away with maybe 6 or 8 broad skills (Athletics, Awareness, Interaction, Knowledge, Survival/Woodcraft/something, Thievery) plus two saves (Physical and Mental) and a level bonus (the true measure of competence in D&D). Use feats to provide specialties ("Trapsmith: advantage when using Thievery to disarm Traps"; "Strong: +2 on Athletics rolls to lift and for grappling). Oh, and get ride of the worst element of 5E design: the tool proficiency.

No more "You 6 int barbarian wouldn't think of that plan!"

For some constructive posting, there are a fair number of possibilities. You could expand the attributes to greater specification (e.g., AGE: Accuracy, Communication, Constitution, Dexterity, Fighting, Intelligence, Perception, Strength, Willpower) or even more broadly (e.g., Shadow of the Demon Lord: Strength, Agility, Intellect, Will). There are a fair number of OSR games that also reduce the number of attributes (e.g., Maze Rats).

Forged in the Dark opts to Actions/Skills. I have also seen this work for a Cortex Prime D&D-esque fantasy heartbreaker hack by @angille for her Mythikal game.

You could also opt for replacing ability scores with Roles: e.g., Aristocrat (social), Engineer (crafting/labor), Explorer (mobility, perception, etc.), Rogue (sneaking/stealing/etc.), Scholar (knowledge), Warrior (fighting).

 

[IndigoTraveler]

Both Mist of Akuma and The Book of Erotic Fantasy have done something like this.

For Mist of Akuma it was both Haitoku and Dignity.

For Book of Erotic Fantasy it was Appearance.

 

[TwoSix]

I just don't think that Ability Scores are actually necessary to accomplish what D&D is aiming for. After all, in the original edition they were nearly irrelevant given how high or low they had to be to offer any modifiers.

You're correct that they're not necessary, but the chance that they'll actually be replaced is about the same as the chance that they'll abandon the d20 for a dice pool. Pretty close to zero.