Advise on assassin builds?

[JoeGKushner]

Messing around with the DDI. Unlike the other classes, there's not a lot of material to read. Are there any good threads about making an efficient assassin? Hopefully a halfling one?

 

[jbear]

The Assassin is still really lacking some decent at will powers. It's striker damage feature is not the best unless you either take a feat that hides your shrouds from the target or your DM hand waves it otherwise you cant even sneak up on someone, observe them and land a massive hit on them before combat starts. They have great flavour and some of their encounter powers are really cool. But in my opinion the best assassin isn't an assassin at all. I'd build a hybrid assassin/rogue multiclassed into warlock. This will give you backstab damage while you build your shrouds and shroud damage when you lack combat advantage. Hybrid Talent for the at will teleoport power and when you are a warlock and assassin you can get the warlock shadow walk feature with a feat and gain concealment when you move more than 2. If you went human you could take 2 rogue at wills (which are superior and give you melee and ranged attack). And the assassin at will which gives you a Pull attack.

Here is a real quick start:


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 7
Human, Rogue|Assassin
Hybrid Assassin: Hybrid Assassin Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Shadow Step
Background: Occupation - Military (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 19, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 19 Fort: 17 Reflex: 19 Will: 16
HP: 50 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +10, Athletics +9, Acrobatics +12, Stealth +12, Thievery +12, Bluff +10, Perception +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +3, Heal +3, History +4, Insight +3, Intimidate +5, Nature +3, Religion +4, Streetwise +5

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Student of Malediction
Level 2: Cursed Shadow
Level 4: Versatile Duelist
Level 6: Roguish Killer

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Deft Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Hybrid at-will 1: Piercing Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Gloom Thief
Hybrid daily 1: Targeted for Death
Hybrid utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
Hybrid encounter 3: Low Slash
Hybrid daily 5: Go for the Eyes
Hybrid utility 6: Darting Shadow
Hybrid encounter 7: Shadow Jack

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Longsword
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

While I can't offer much in the way of advice, here's a drow assassin that was played in my campaign (using inherent bonuses):

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Lelith, level 4
Drow, Assassin
Guild Training: Night Stalker
Darkfire: Darkfire Charisma
Background: Drow - Outcast (+2 to Perception)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 17.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14.


AC: 19 Fort: 16 Reflex: 17 Will: 17
HP: 36 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +13, Athletics +7, Acrobatics +11, Perception +10, Thievery +11, Bluff +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +4, Heal +3, History +2, Insight +3, Intimidate +7, Nature +3, Religion +2, Streetwise +5

FEATS
Level 1: Bardic Dilettante
Level 2: Hidden Insight
Level 4: Brutal Shroud

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Inescapable Blade
Assassin at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Assassin encounter 1: Shadow Darts
Assassin daily 1: Grave Spike
Assassin utility 2: Lurking Shadow
Assassin encounter 3: Army of the Night

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Disguise Kit, Harp, Grappling Hook, Glass Cutter, Thieves' Tools, Glaive, Hand Crossbow, Footpads, Rain of Hammers Ki Focus +1, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Nightmare Ward Leather Armor +1, Silent Tool: Thieves' Tools (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

With the stat boosts for drow and halflings being the same, I'd say you should get the hidden insight feat at lvl 1 instead of the bard multiclass (which had been taken for background reasons) and look for an alternative weapon. This assassin build is somewhat controller-y, but IME could still deal lots of damage while staying at range with the glaive.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

don´t allow an optimizer to see that build... you only put a 15 into your main ability...

i suggest going down 2 points in int or strength and increase dex to 16. But both options are good enough.

I defnitively disagree that assassin at wills are lame. The one which deals extra damage per adjacent target is great, as is the one which deals extra damage when not invoking your shadows.

One gives at least 1 point of extra damage, often alot more. Ok, the other one is only useful in special cases, as is the extra range one.

I admit, one is lame... it should be usable as a MBA...

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

don´t allow an optimizer to see that build... you only put a 15 into your main ability...

Well, she did start with Dex 17 at level 1.^^

But seriously, we're not hardcore optimizers in our groups, and as DM I help the players build their characters (if they want my advice ). I've also played characters with 16's in their primary and secondary stats just fine (elf fighter/mc rogue Str 16/Dex 16/Wis 16, human ardent/mc bard Con 16/Cha 16).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes, in my group we also had 17s after racials. And my own goliath bard (Barbarian) has charisma 16, Str 16, Con 16. At least when i played the solo adventure with it. MAybe i have an alternative build with 18 Charisma and 15 Strength and Constitution. Both options have its merits.

 

[Robtheman]

The Rogue|Assassin + Warlock is intriguing. It has oodles of flavor!

Here's my modified version at level 4 with a purchased level 1 weapon and level 3, 4 and 5 magical items. Also purchased lots of stuff to augment a master of disguise and deception theme.

[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vir, level 4
Human, Rogue|Assassin
Hybrid Assassin: Hybrid Assassin Fortitude
Pact Initiate: Pact Initiate (fey pact)
Hybrid Talent: Shadow Step
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Background: Birth - Cursed (+2 to Bluff)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 19, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 15.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 19 Fort: 17 Reflex: 19 Will: 16
HP: 37 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +9, Thievery +11, Streetwise +9, Stealth +11, Acrobatics +11, Bluff +11, Intimidate +9, Arcana +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +3, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +3, Athletics +1

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Pact Initiate
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Cursed Shadow

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Duelist's Flurry
Hybrid at-will 1: Piercing Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Hybrid encounter 1: Gloom Thief
Hybrid daily 1: Targeted for Death
Hybrid utility 2: Fast Hands
Hybrid encounter 3: Low Slash

ITEMS
Challenge-Seeking Short sword +1, Deathcut Leather Armor +1, Gloaming Shroud +1, Hedge Wizard's Gloves (heroic tier), Accurate dagger, Adventurer's Kit, Candle (10), Disguise Kit, Fine Clothing, Camouflaged Clothing, Bottle of Wine, Footpads, Grappling Hook, Holy Symbol, Thieves' Tools
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[/sblock]

It also alleviates the difficulty Assassins have going nova for a round by opening up the Rogue minor action Low Slash and the daily that knocks prone.

Add 8 trained skill (2 of them social, 1 knowledge) and you've got a very versatile character both in and out of combat.

Round 3 Nova at level 5:
Round 1, spot the BBEG and Target for Death (3d8+4) then double shroud BBEG
Round 2, close on BBEG, strike and position with Duelists Flurry (4+2d6 Sneak Attack) then double shroud BBEG
Round 3, apply the hurt
- Invoke 4 shrounds (free action)
- Gloom Thief 2d6+5+4d6 (or 3d6 on miss) and become invisible to target (standard action)
- Action Point
- Walking Wounded 2d6+5 and knock target prone (standard action)
- Low Slash 1d6+5 (minor action)
- Sneak Attack 2d6 (if either Low Slash or Walking Wounded connect)
- Shadow Step if you can or Shift and roll stealth if Gloom Thief connected

I'm not savvy enough to figure out the average damage but you've got CA on Low slash if Gloom Thief or Walking Wounded hits so the numbers are in your favor. In addition to that you've got 3 of 5 attacks against NADs, and two of those are melee weapon attacks with +11 to hit.

I realize this is not the end all be all build for damage. I'd play it though just for the number of other skills and fun things this Assassin|Rouge+Warlock can do.

 

[JoeGKushner]

One of the things I like is that you can play around with the system.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Falco Highhill, level 10
Halfling, Assassin
Build: Night Stalker Assassin
Guild Training: Night Stalker
Background: Luskan (Luskan Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 24 Fort: 19 Reflex: 22 Will: 22
HP: 59 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +16, Thievery +18, Streetwise +14, Acrobatics +17, Perception +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +6, Heal +5, History +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +9, Nature +5, Religion +5, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Killer's Insight
Level 2: Brutal Shroud
Level 4: Phantom Blade Evasion
Level 6: Venom Hand Assassin
Level 8: Venom Hand Killer
Level 10: Venom Handler

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Shadow Storm
Assassin at-will 1: Inescapable Blade
Assassin encounter 1: Gloom Thief
Assassin daily 1: Grave Spike
Assassin utility 2: Contrivance of Speed
Assassin encounter 3: Inescapable Shadow
Assassin daily 5: Heart of Dust
Assassin utility 6: Slithering Shadow
Assassin encounter 7: Captured Shadow
Assassin daily 9: Obscuring Shadow
Assassin utility 10: Promise of Retribution

ITEMS
Magic Ki Focus +3, Skybound Leather Armor +2, Frostwolf Pelt +2, Adventurer's Kit, Longsword
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

The Character Builder rocks . Let's see, you're using the standard array. You might want to switch Str and Wis, as Perception is very important in 4e. It's just a 1-point difference, though, and won't matter if there's an archer ranger in the party.

Personally, I'd get Venom Hand Master before Venom Handler to make sure your two poison damage feats (and that poison damage power) aren't ineffective against certain monsters.

Depending on your party composition, Shadowed Legion (lvl 2) could be very useful. Did you choose Contrivance of Speed to be able to escape from melee? (I'm asking because Shadow Step is usually sufficient for good positioning IME.)

Speaking of mobility, Slayer's Escape (lvl 6) is a good alternative to Slithering Shadow. (Btw, you can't have two active stances at the same time, just in case you didn't know.)

I'm a bit uncertain on the level 10 utilities. Mist Walk looks awesome (phasing!), but it only lasts for one move action. Overall, they seem somewhat lackluster to me.

The rest looks good IMO.

 

[mneme]

One big thing about the Assassin's damage that seems to be missed in the above. Fundamentally, the Assassin isn't a light weapon onr one handed weapon wielder -- which is why they don't have the level of extra striker damage that a rogue has (a rogue gets an extra die of striker damage -because- they're expected to be doing 1d4 or 1d6 damage with their weapon instead of 1d10 or 1d12. 1d4+2d6 = 9.5, whears 1d10+1d6 = 9). Instead, they're a two handed weapon wielder, who starts with proficiency with military two handed heavy blades and can (and probably should, unless you're going almost entirely with implement atatcks) jump up to a superior weapon--if you're sticking with a heavy blade, that means going from 1d10 +3 to 1d12 high crit +3 -- a sizable bump.

As such, sneak attack can give you some nice burst damage--but you actually get better sustained damage by sticking to type and going with a big weapon you can't easily sneak attack with--giving you an extra 2 damage per round (assuming military; with superior weapons you get more like 3 -- 2 plus a d12 high crit) instead of an extra 7 (eg, 5) damage in the round you sneak attack and -2 damage the rest of the time.

For instance, a Githzerai assassin might very well go with a 20 array (that dex bonus is tasty). I'm too lazy to try to play with charbuilder right now, but how about:

The Black Flag, 1st level
Githzerai, Assassin
Build: Night Stalker Assassin
Guild Training: Night Stalker

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 20, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 15 Fort: 12 Reflex: 15 Will: 13
HP: 21 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +10, Thievery +10, Bluff +7, Acrobatics +12, Perception +6

FEATS
Level 1: Githzerai Blade Mastery

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Leaping Shade
Assassin at-will 1: Inescapable Blade
Assassin encounter 1: Gloom Thief
Assassin daily 1: Grave Spike

ITEMS
Fullblade, Adventurer's Kit, Dagger x 4

(hit chance is 2 above average due to 20 dex and +3 prof weapon, so 11/20 hit, 1/20 crit)
At will DPR, assuming you invoke shrouds every other turn: .5(every other turn)*1d6+(11/20 * (1d12 (6.5) + .5 + .5 * 1d6 + 5 + 2)) + (.05 * 2.5 (maximized shrouds) + 5.5 (maximizing damage) + 1d12) = 11

[but really 8.57 dpr on turns you don't invoke your shrouds and 13.57 dpr on turns where you do invoke your shrouds, and I wasn't taking into account combat advantage from flanking or stealth or extra damage from an isolated target; don't forget the trick of running around knocking off minions while you build up shrouds, then turning and taking a big wack at your target]

Sure, you're fragile -- but assassins are meant to avoid hits by working with the defender, hiding, and teleporting away.

For a small assassin...well, you're gimped from the outset, as small characters can't wield the really big weapons, and Assassins have lousy damage with implement powers. But you can almost keep up by using "small large weapons" -- spend a feat on the talenta sharrash (from the Eberon book) and you're using a +3 prof, 1d8 polearm/heavy blade with reach and high crit; you can pull off a lot of tricks with that kind of tech that somewhat make up for a lower damage die--it's actually a stronger weapon overall than a glaive, -and- small characters can wield it.