D&D 5E Advice on how I should multi-class

[Ressh]

I am currently playing Storm King's Thunder and I've just hit level 5 on my revised arcane archer. I'm now torn on where I should go. I was thinking arcane trickster would be fun and would fit into my background story, but continuing with fighter also seems very good.
Cunning action and adding DPR are why I was thinking of adding rogue.
I currently have sharpshooter and my current stats are listed below:
11
20
16
16
14
12
Also, on top of the revised arcane archer my DM also made it so I have arcane shots = to my intelligence modifier.
My backstory is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-H0f4De3cycH9MjglLRb4HtT_z3ybXRR_wAEDFqR8d4/edit?usp=sharing if anyone cares to know.

 

[ClaytonCross]

An arcane archer 5, rogue 15 gets two shots with the bow First hit is 10d6 (avg. DPR 35) with sneak attack second is 2d6 (avg. DPR 7)
if both hit your total average DPR is 42 (57 on the turn you use your 1 action surge, if both hit)

An arcane archer level 20 gets four shots at 4d6 avg. of 14 each for a total average DPR of 56 (112 on each of the turns you use one of your 2 action surges)

If your looking long term (Read level 20) you are losing DPR crossing into rogue because you drop your attacks from 4 (16d6) to 3 (13d6 with sneak attack) with just one level of rogue, You drop from 4d6 (13d6 w/SA) to 2d6 (8d6 w/SA) per attack if you take 3 levels of rogue instead of 1 or 2 levels, 4 levels of rouge drops your second action surge which you may or may not miss that much but depending on how and when you use it could represent a drop in DPR per short rest, 10 levels of rogue drops your attacks from 3 (11d6 w/SA) to 2 (9d6 with w/SA), which brings you back to the 12d6 w/SA at 15 levels of rogue. You note that a both a 15rogue/5archer and a 3rogue/17archer do better damage than the near 10/10 split because they extra attacks and bonus damage of set each other more at higher levels. So you want a minimal buy in from one class or the other 12/8 or 10/10 splits are the worst.

But you need to consider 3 more things before you let this effect your decision.

1. Do you miss a lot? (due to GM setting you against high AC enemies or bad roles) If the answer is yes while you may have a consistently higher max damage with multiple moderate damage attacks, you get the majority of damage from sneak attack with the first hit (not attack), so if only one hits you likely do more damage with high levels in rogue. If your GM normally sends groups with lower AC and health, you will be able to spread your damage better and likely do more damage in general going full Archer or just a couple of levels of rogue. (depending on how much overkill damage you waste, but that should average fairly low.)

2. Are you attacking enemies engaged with your allies or with advantage? So in order to use sneak attack you need advantage or for them to be engaged with a party member. If your party is largely ranged you may find it hard to keep valid targets for sneak attack and may be constantly using tricks to gain advantage. If you have advantage on your attacks against a target(s) you are likely better off with 4 attacks due since they would all be more likely to hit. If your party if full of melee you should not have any problem finding opportunities for sneak attack. You can expect to be weaker against multiple ranged and flying enemies where you would lose your ability to sneak attack until allies can set you up. Remembering that if you attack from stealth only the first attack is eligible for sneak attack if it misses your second attack would only be a normal it even if it is your only hit this combat turn (unless you have advantage by some other means of course)

3. Do you have or do you plan on taking the Sharpshooter Feat? If yes go Full archer or 2 rogue / 18 archer. Simply put if you don't have it don't worry about it but if you do make the best use of it and it could easily out shadow sneak attack.

Summery:

Full archer or 2 rogue / 18 archer vs multiple week enemies, flying ranged bosses like Beholders and Dragons, archer ambushes

15 rogue / 5 archer vs High AC single targets and/or melee targets which are pretty common as bosses and fodder

The real key is which of these is no one else doing in your group? You should aim for what they don't have to level out your parties damage, give you a time to be awesome, give your other players a time to be awesome. So if you already have "Tank" killers in your group go more archer, if you have a couple of AoE or split damage casters in your group go rogue to be a single target tank killer. If your group has both covered I recommend staying archer because you likely choose archer instead of rogue for a reason, trust your first instincts as long as your still having furn.

hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[bid]

Fighter 5 / rogue 15, fighter 11 / rogue 9 and fighter 20 do about the same DPR over progression. IOW, at level 15-19 the rogue MC will do more damage than the pure fighter, but at level 20 fighter does better.

Curving shot is the main reason stopping at fighter 5 is a bad idea. Beyond that, I don't expect balance to be different as your arcane shots are more limited than BM's SD.

If you have SS (which you should), you are removing some attacks at 1d8+15 for 5d6 to 8d6 SA damage. For instance at level 15, you are exchanging your 3rd attack (roughly 10 DPR ~ 1d8+15 * .5) for SA damage (13 DPR ~ 5d6 * .75). Overall not a big gain/loss in damage.

If you MC, I wouldn't do it before fighter 5. I would MC to rogue 3, then fighter 7, then rogue 9 to finish at fighter 11 / rogue 9.


It all comes down to which build matches your RP concept and has the best utilities.

 

[pdegan2814]

I'd probably stick with Fighter until Level 8, for two ASI/Feat bumps and Curving Shot at Level 7. And for the folks talking about builds out to Level 20, remember that he's playing Storm King's Thunder, which is not a 1-20 campaign. So any decisions about multiclassing should take into effect what level you realistically expect to reach with this character. Are you going to be playing him after STK is done?

 

[ClaytonCross]

Fighter 5 / rogue 15, fighter 11 / rogue 9 and fighter 20 do about the same DPR over progression. IOW, at level 15-19 the rogue MC will do more damage than the pure fighter, but at level 20 fighter does better.

Curving shot is the main reason stopping at fighter 5 is a bad idea. Beyond that, I don't expect balance to be different as your arcane shots are more limited than BM's SD.

If you have SS (which you should), you are removing some attacks at 1d8+15 for 5d6 to 8d6 SA damage. For instance at level 15, you are exchanging your 3rd attack (roughly 10 DPR ~ 1d8+15 * .5) for SA damage (13 DPR ~ 5d6 * .75). Overall not a big gain/loss in damage.

If you MC, I wouldn't do it before fighter 5. I would MC to rogue 3, then fighter 7, then rogue 9 to finish at fighter 11 / rogue 9.


It all comes down to which build matches your RP concept and has the best utilities.

Your calculating average DPR wrong for Sharpshooter.... you can't have an average lower than your minimum damage of 16... average DPR of 1d8+15 = 4.5 + 15 or 19DPR, on top of that the Arcane archer does an additional 2d6 force damage (+7DPR) per arrow starting at level 3 for a total of 26.5DPR....not 10. Also, the DPR on 5d6 is actually 17.5 not 13 unless your adding a hit ratio against and unknown AC which is a highly unreliable number. So the correct statement is your trading an average 26-27 damage attack for and additional 17-18 damage on 1 attack assuming that you have 1 that is eligible. Not, really a great trade unless you normally miss and your playing the odds you hit once vs the better damage of 3 higher attacks.

 

[ClaytonCross]

I'd probably stick with Fighter until Level 8, for two ASI/Feat bumps and Curving Shot at Level 7. And for the folks talking about builds out to Level 20, remember that he's playing Storm King's Thunder, which is not a 1-20 campaign. So any decisions about multiclassing should take into effect what level you realistically expect to reach with this character. Are you going to be playing him after STK is done?

This is a very good point I intended to do the math for leveling but up I got distracted and I am a bit busy right now. I might do it later if I get the time. Also, I totally spaced on the extra Attribute and feats so I would agree off hand that staying Arcane archer until level 8 is a good idea unless your going full rogue and then snag at least level 6 Arcane archer for so that you don't suffer any ASI lose from the multiclass.

 

[ClaytonCross]

Storm King's Thunder is intended for 1st level to 11th level characters. With that in mind I broke the DPR at key levels
Based on:
----
I currently have sharpshooter and my current stats are listed below:
11
20
16
16
14
12
-----Some really high states but ok lets go

So I realized "create a magic arrow" requires a bonus action so you can only use if for one attack which also means you will not be able to use it the same time as the rogues "cunning action"

level 6: Possible Ability Score Improvement or Feat
Rogue 1 / Arcane Archer 5: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (1d6 SA) = 45 DPR
Arcane Archer 6: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) = 41.5 DPR + 1 Feat since you already have max dex, Crossbow expert so you can shoot point plank without disadvantage and gain advantage vs prone targets within 5ft to make sharp shooter more likely? Yep kick em when they are down.

level 8: Possible Ability Score Improvement or Feat
Rogue 3 / Arcane Archer 5: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (2d6 SA) = 48.5 DPR
Rogue 2 / Arcane Archer 6: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (1d6 SA) = 45 DPR + Crossbow expert?
Arcane Archer 8: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (2d6 hex) = 48.5 DPR + Crossbow expert? + Magic Initiate for Warlock Hex?

Level 11: Possible Extra Attack
Rogue 6 / Arcane Archer 5: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (3d6 SA) = 52 DPR + Uncanny Dodge + Expertise
Rogue 5 / Arcane Archer 6: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (3d6 SA) = 52 DPR + Crossbow expert? + Uncanny Dodge
Rogue 3 / Arcane Archer 8: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (2d6 SA) = 48.5 DPR + Crossbow expert? + Magic Initiate?
Arcane Archer 11: (2d6+15) + (1d8+15) + (1d8+15) + (3d6 hex) = 71.5 DPR + Crossbow expert? + Magic Initiate? + Indomitable

I think if your better off going full archer and grabbing Magic Initiate for hex. Yes its once a day but its transferable and unless you lose concentration or cast another concentration spell you will likely keep it for 1 whole battle. After level 12 you might grab 2 in rogue.

 

[Ressh]

A reminder to a few of you that I am playing the revised arcane archer. Also, I am now heavily considering taking a 2-3 dip into the revised ranger. So maybe go fighter 7, then go ranger 3 then back to fighter.

 

[bid]

Your calculating average DPR wrong for Sharpshooter.... you can't have an average lower than your minimum damage of 16... average DPR of 1d8+15 = 4.5 + 15 or 19DPR

Yeah right. That's not DPR, unless you somehow always hit.

It's not even a proxy for DPR, because SS reduces to-hit.
Rogue 15 SA will do 8d6 if any attack hits (~ 64% of the time).
Fighter 20 will have 2 extra attacks for 1d8+15 or so each (~ 40% of the time)
Or something like that, but you get the picture.


So your analysis is comparing apples to oranges, making it invalid.

 

[Ovarwa]

I don't see why you wouldn't like staying with Fighter for the third attack at level 11 and the bonus action curved shot at level 7, and the 2 ASIs at levels 6 and 8.

With your GM's changes, boosting both Dex and Int to 20 have value. That's 4 ASIs right there. You already have Sharpshooter, which is an excellent choice, especially once you have Curved Shot for miss mitigation. But that's a 5th ASI, and I think it's worth getting these ASAP. You seem to have rolled stats and have Dex 20 and Sharpshooter at level 5, so you'll reach Int 20 at level 8 if you stay in Fighter, maxing out your arcane shots early. At that point, staying with Fighter until 11 is just plain better. Then, if you're bored with Arcane Archer, you can do anything, maybe even add in some real wizard, to leverage that 20 Int. Or you can stay. Level 20 isn't worth discussing.

So...

Anyway,

Ken