D&D 5E About to run Lost Mine of Phandelver & I have some questions. May contain spoilers.

[painted_klown]

Hello all,

This Sunday will be my first day actually playing 5E (or any edition of D&D for that matter) and I will be taking on the role of DM.

I have some questions about the adventure, as well as just want to ask for advice from all of you.

1. The book has the adventure broken down into 4 parts. Is the best way to run this adventure as 1 part per gaming session?

2. When the players are in the Cragmaw hideout, there is a spot where (if successful) they can climb over the wall (same room the wolves are in) to move from room 3 to room 8, the final boss room.

How do I handle this? Do I let them all try to climb over and (if they make it) just skip the entire cave? I found it rather odd this was even there, and an confused how I should work it.


3. If they don't climb over the wall, they go back out and can see the bridge and a goblin in the distance, but the goblin is supposed to sneak away so he can cause the flood in room 7. This also baffles me as to why it would even be in there. I can imagine that if any of my players saw the goblin, they would all want to rush to kill him.

How do you handle things like this? How do I know if my players will actually see the Goblin or not? Ask them all to roll for a check? Doesn't doing so, spoil the surprise/tip them off to know they should be looking for something?

This question also goes along with finding things like traps and so forth. These are all new players, so they may not be used to looking around rooms, scouting ahead, stating they are investigating, etc. How do you give new players small hints without spoiling the game?


4. The PCs are all coming from the video game world. WOW players all of them. I am concerned about maps, due to this. One player in particular seems set on the idea of me drawing out maps, covering them with paper, and revealing things as they move along.

The issues I have with this are that I cannot draw at all, and it would be extremely time consuming to have to draw out all those maps, even if I could draw. Being a new DM, I have put in hours and hours of just trying to learn the rules, making countless labeled bookmarks for my PHB, asking question son this forum, doing searches for answers, watching youtube videos, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing all of this, but it's rather time consuming, to say the least.

I don't want to (nor do I have the ability/skills to) draw out maps for all of this. How can I handle it in a way that will excite video gamers, and not have to sacrifice sleep to make everything work?

Sorry for the laundry list of questione here. These are mostly "How to DM" types of questions, I suppose, with some adventure specific things thrown in as well.

 

[marcelos]

Hello all,

This Sunday will be my first day actually playing 5E (or any edition of D&D for that matter) and I will be taking on the role of DM.

I have some questions about the adventure, as well as just want to ask for advice from all of you.

1. The book has the adventure broken down into 4 parts. Is the best way to run this adventure as 1 part per gaming session?

You will not be able to run one part per session, unless your sessions are more than 8 hours long. Some parts take a while to develop.

2. When the players are in the Cragmaw hideout, there is a spot where (if successful) they can climb over the wall (same room the wolves are in) to move from room 3 to room 8, the final boss room.

How do I handle this? Do I let them all try to climb over and (if they make it) just skip the entire cave? I found it rather odd this was even there, and an confused how I should work it.

I did not allow them to go up there. They climbed and realized that there was a flat and heavy stone blocking the passage.

My reasoning was that the boss would never leave this passage unprotected, for his safety and as a means to escape dangerous situations.

3. If they don't climb over the wall, they go back out and can see the bridge and a goblin in the distance, but the goblin is supposed to sneak away so he can cause the flood in room 7. This also baffles me as to why it would even be in there. I can imagine that if any of my players saw the goblin, they would all want to rush to kill him.

How do you handle things like this? How do I know if my players will actually see the Goblin or not? Ask them all to roll for a check? Doesn't doing so, spoil the surprise/tip them off to know they should be looking for something?

This question also goes along with finding things like traps and so forth. These are all new players, so they may not be used to looking around rooms, scouting ahead, stating they are investigating, etc. How do you give new players small hints without spoiling the game?

In the case of the goblin sentry, it is a simple passive perception vs. stealth check. The book notes the stealth bonus of the goblin. If the players has a light source, however, I would give advantage to the goblin check.

About finding traps, you can also use passive perception, and give bonuses if the players suspect of traps. You can use those opportunities to teach them. But no one wants a group that says "I am looking for traps" every ten seconds.

4. The PCs are all coming from the video game world. WOW players all of them. I am concerned about maps, due to this. One player in particular seems set on the idea of me drawing out maps, covering them with paper, and revealing things as they move along.

The issues I have with this are that I cannot draw at all, and it would be extremely time consuming to have to draw out all those maps, even if I could draw. Being a new DM, I have put in hours and hours of just trying to learn the rules, making countless labeled bookmarks for my PHB, asking question son this forum, doing searches for answers, watching youtube videos, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing all of this, but it's rather time consuming, to say the least.

I don't want to (nor do I have the ability/skills to) draw out maps for all of this. How can I handle it in a way that will excite video gamers, and not have to sacrifice sleep to make everything work?

Sorry for the laundry list of questione here. These are mostly "How to DM" types of questions, I suppose, with some adventure specific things thrown in as well.

I crudely draw maps on a 5mm scale paper to give them a notion of their position. I draw as they advance on the dungeon. You don't need to draw it perfectly, and in most situations you can just describe the layout.

Some tips:
1) Remember that the dungeon is "alive". If some goblin escapes inside it, the locations of the enemies would change. In my case, only two players entered the cave, and the bridge goblin ran, actaving the first flood. The players got out to call the others, and when they came back to the cave there were like six goblins in or below the bridge, with wooden crates as cover and shooting arrows, and one lone goblin at the back giving orders and prepared to run for the boss in case things went badly.
2) Reward the players when they come up with non-combat solutions. If they come from videogames, they will think that everything is combat. Maybe make the Lords Alliance NPC tell them that they could negotiate with the necromancer, for example.
3) Adapt the story! If you think that the players would get more motivated or happy with the changes, go for it. In my case, the kid that found the secret entrance to the Redbrands hideout (who is the nephew of the rogue) was actually captured from them and given as a slave to the green dragon. The dragon is curious about a dragon-shaped birthmark on the kid - this creates a strong motivation to fight or negotiate with the venomfang.
4) If you are into taking the game to a different level, you could look for the digitally projected map (projector on the ceiling pointing to table, and using photoshop masks to show the parts of the map they know). But this is professional DMing

 

[Cernor]

Alright, so I've run the adventure before and will try ti answer each of your questions in order:

1. There's really no best way to run each section, as how quickly you go depends on your players. Ideally you should be able to get through the Cragmaw hideout in one session, bit if you go faster or slower, don't worry about it.
As far as PnP games go, there's no "best" way to do anything, only "better" or "worse", both of which depend on your players.

2. If they defeat the wolves and start climbing up the (natural chimney in the) wall, by all means they can climb up and confront the goblins' leader. Keep in mind that they can only climb up one at a time, and the goblinoids in Area 8 could detect them and attack while only one or two of them are up there. Keep in mind that this isn't a cRPG, and killing the leader doesn't immediately resolve the other problems they face (they haven't 'cleared the cave' until they've rescued Sildar as well). I don't remember if it gives guidelines for his hard it is to climb, but personally I'd rule that a DC 15 Athletics check lets them climb up to half their speed, hitting DC 10 makes them go nowhere, and failure to hit DC 5 (while already climbing) makes them fall, alerting the goblinoids in Area 8 to their presence as well as taking 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen.

3. Make a Stealth check for the goblin as it tries to sneak away past the bridge (but ideally roll this before the players get inside). If that check is equal to or lower than a player's passive Perception, then that player sees the goblin and can attack it or leave it. If they don't see it, then the trap is triggered. If a player says they're looking to see if there are enemies on the bridge, make them make a Perception check with the DC whatever you rolled before for goblin's Stealth check. You don't have to give your players hints, sometimes it's best if you let them learn for themselves that they should be checking for traps, listening for enemies, and so on.

4. I came from a heavy videogame background (I think 6-7 years of WoW) before starting D&D, and I've found that the theater of the mind (where you describe what's going on) is the quickest and easiest way to run 5e rather than using maps. As long as you're accurate in your descriptions (don't forget enemies or inportant features of rooms, and remember where everyone is) then you should do that just fine. If your player is set on you drawing maps, just tell him (or her) that you're going to try without maps to begin and see how it goes from there.

Really, DMing is all about practice. You'll make mistakes at first, but dont worry about it. The more you DM the fewer mistakes you'll make... And don't be afraid to kill a PC if they do something stupid (like attacking area 8 on their own, I had a player do that once -.-).

Best of luck!

 

[delericho]

1. The book has the adventure broken down into 4 parts. Is the best way to run this adventure as 1 part per gaming session?

You're unlikely to get through one part per session. But when you do get to the end of a part, you might want to consider ending the current session.

2. When the players are in the Cragmaw hideout, there is a spot where (if successful) they can climb over the wall (same room the wolves are in) to move from room 3 to room 8, the final boss room.

How do I handle this? Do I let them all try to climb over and (if they make it) just skip the entire cave? I found it rather odd this was even there, and an confused how I should work it.

It's an example of "challenging the players". If the players have their characters explore thoroughly, they might find the hidden path. If they do, they might think to have their characters climb up. And, in that case, their reward is that they get to skip many of the dangers and jump to the end.

My guess is that it's unlikely to come up (because of all the 'ifs'), but if your players do find it then let them use it. It's not like there isn't plenty of other stuff in the adventure for them to do!

This question also goes along with finding things like traps and so forth. These are all new players, so they may not be used to looking around rooms, scouting ahead, stating they are investigating, etc. How do you give new players small hints without spoiling the game?

Don't. Let them figure it out as they go along - they'll probably surprise you at how quickly they adapt to such things.

4. The PCs are all coming from the video game world. WOW players all of them. I am concerned about maps, due to this. One player in particular seems set on the idea of me drawing out maps, covering them with paper, and revealing things as they move along.

Repeat after me. "No. I'm not drawing a map. If you want one, you draw it."

Unless you're using minis, of course, in which case an accurate tactical representation is a must.

(Either way, I wouldn't worry about your inability to draw. All that's really needed are a few lines scribbled on a sheet - nobody expects you to rival Michaelangelo!)

 

[Jaelommiss]

1. The book has the adventure broken down into 4 parts. Is the best way to run this adventure as 1 part per gaming session?

Run the adventure at the speed that the players clear the content. If they progress slowly then take more than one session per part. If they find a way to get what they need/want from that part in the first five minutes, be ready to let them move on. Ultimately your players will decide on how fast you go through the adventure.

2. When the players are in the Cragmaw hideout, there is a spot where (if successful) they can climb over the wall (same room the wolves are in) to move from room 3 to room 8, the final boss room.

How do I handle this? Do I let them all try to climb over and (if they make it) just skip the entire cave? I found it rather odd this was even there, and an confused how I should work it.

There is nothing wrong with letting them climb up and take on the 'boss'. I think that the module gives you advice on what checks the players need to succeed on to climb up. Make sure that they remember that they are (most likely) not there to kill the goblins, but to find out what happened to Gundran and Sildar, and rescue them if possible. Only Sildar is in the cave, and he's as far away from room 8 as it is possible to get, so climbing up doesn't really help them achieve their goal (not that they know this).

3. If they don't climb over the wall, they go back out and can see the bridge and a goblin in the distance, but the goblin is supposed to sneak away so he can cause the flood in room 7. This also baffles me as to why it would even be in there. I can imagine that if any of my players saw the goblin, they would all want to rush to kill him.

How do you handle things like this? How do I know if my players will actually see the Goblin or not? Ask them all to roll for a check? Doesn't doing so, spoil the surprise/tip them off to know they should be looking for something?

This question also goes along with finding things like traps and so forth. These are all new players, so they may not be used to looking around rooms, scouting ahead, stating they are investigating, etc. How do you give new players small hints without spoiling the game?

The goblin is there because it makes sense for the goblins to have a sentry posted. This isn't a video game where monsters are only placed in predetermined groups for players to kill, but instead a world that you as a DM need to bring to life. Giving goblins a degree of self preservation and taking actions to protect themselves is how the module helps you acomplish this. If the goblin escapes, then they set off a trap to get rid of the intruders. When the intruders come back they do it again. If they come back a third time, I imagine that they would let the other goblins in the cave know and set up ambushes.

In any case, the cave is dark and only those with Darkvision will be able to see the goblin on the bridge at a distance. By the time players get close enough with a torch the goblin will have run off. I think there is also a Perception check mentioned in the module. Anyone scouting ahead would get to make this check. I agree with you that asking for a roll tips them off that there is something to look for. One way to avoid this is to have all the players roll five perception checks before the cave, write down their results, and then use those numbers without telling them that they are making the check.

4. The PCs are all coming from the video game world. WOW players all of them. I am concerned about maps, due to this. One player in particular seems set on the idea of me drawing out maps, covering them with paper, and revealing things as they move along.

The issues I have with this are that I cannot draw at all, and it would be extremely time consuming to have to draw out all those maps, even if I could draw. Being a new DM, I have put in hours and hours of just trying to learn the rules, making countless labeled bookmarks for my PHB, asking question son this forum, doing searches for answers, watching youtube videos, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing all of this, but it's rather time consuming, to say the least.

I don't want to (nor do I have the ability/skills to) draw out maps for all of this. How can I handle it in a way that will excite video gamers, and not have to sacrifice sleep to make everything work?

My only advice is don't use maps if you don't want to. If the players want a map, let them create it themselves based off of your descriptions.

Since they are coming from WoW it would be a good idea to let them know that they will get butchered if they try to fight their way through everything. Sitting in a goblin cave for an hour (short rest) is almost certainly to get them discovered. Sleeping outside the cave (long rest) without moving a distance away and hiding is probably going to have the same result. Ultimately they will ignore you and learn the hard way, but its still a good idea to give them a chance.

Something else I would suggest is avoid having intelligent creatures make obviously suicidal actions. A goblin will not run in to attack the armouerd dwarf with a massive axe if she can instead hide in the trees and shoot arrows in relative safety. After seeing his friends slaughtered, the last goblin will try to run away or surrender instead of fighting to the death. If given a chance, he might later try to escape his bonds and run home to warn his family. Keep the creatures' goals in mind when you make them act. The goblins want to steal supplies, so they might damage the wagon before running off. A smashed wheel should suffice. They'll come back later to steal everything when its dark. If the players left to get help, take it all. If they stayed to guard the wagon, stage an ambush, possibly even capture them. Give them a way to escape from inside the goblin cave. Show them that the world is inhabited by real creatures instead of faceless monsters and your players will be drawn in.

 

[Iosue]

Don't think of Klarg as a "boss." He's a big, strong bugbear, and the leader of the goblins in the cave, but that's all he is. It's not a cheat or warp if the players find the passage and climb up; it's just what happens in the game. If you approach it like this, then the game world will feel more "alive" and non-cliched, and your players will start thinking with originality rather than falling back on fantasy and video game tropes. This will lead to more surprises and memorable escapades for both you and your players.

 

[painted_klown]

Tnank you to all for the suggestions & advice. There's a lot of great/helpful stuff ITT.

Don't think of Klarg as a "boss." He's a big, strong bugbear, and the leader of the goblins in the cave, but that's all he is. It's not a cheat or warp if the players find the passage and climb up; it's just what happens in the game. If you approach it like this, then the game world will feel more "alive" and non-cliched, and your players will start thinking with originality rather than falling back on fantasy and video game tropes. This will lead to more surprises and memorable escapades for both you and your players.

My worry is that they will find the bugbear, kill him off, and leave the cave without further exploration. That skips out on a lof of fun/exploration.

 

[Jaelommiss]

My worry is that they will find the bugbear, kill him off, and leave the cave without further exploration. That skips out on a lot of fun/exploration.

When they say they want to leave, just ask "So you're going to leave Sildar and Gundran to get eaten by goblins?" Most likely they'll decide not to leave. If they decide to leave anyway, let them and have consequences for it later on. Don't interpret this as punishing them. Just have the logical result take place. For instance, no reward for delivering the supplies to town because no one there needs them and the shopkeeper doubts he will be repaid by the presumed-dead Gundran.

 

[Rune]

My worry is that they will find the bugbear, kill him off, and leave the cave without further exploration. That skips out on a lof of fun/exploration.

I wouldn't worry about it for a couple of reasons. First, that chute is best used to scout; the first PC that tries to actually climb into the room is going to find him/herself alone in the middle of a bunch of foes that are dangerous to an entire party. I would make sure they can see that clearly before they actually enter. And that's not even taking into consideration reinforcements from the adjacent room. Or a goblin attack on the rest of the party below. Or both at the same time.

Second, it's okay for Sildar to die. Really. Just fold it into the plot, figure out what tumbles out of the power vacuum the players have created, and move forward.

 

[SigmaOne]

Tnank you to all for the suggestions & advice. There's a lot of great/helpful stuff ITT.




My worry is that they will find the bugbear, kill him off, and leave the cave without further exploration. That skips out on a lof of fun/exploration.

As Jaelommiss said, it all depends on their motivations. Did they go in there to kill a bugbear? If not, then they probably aren't done. Even if they do kill him, and decide to leave and continue on their way to Phandelver, I wouldn't aggressively push them to stay and explore in any out of character way. Hopefully the player's motivations and their discovery of the map tubes on the dead horses lead them to believe their friends may be in the caves, and must be saved, but even if they don't realize it at that time, that's okay. Conversations at that town might lead them to realize they should go back and look through the caves again. Maybe in the meantime, some other chief has been sent to the caverns to run the place.

I'll tell you how my run through of the caverns went: the PCs found the dogs and quickly cast sleep on them, so they weren't a nuisance. But when they tried to make their way up the chimney, climbing being not totally trivial, the unstealthy dwarf in metal armor made it to the top first. And immediately realized that Klarg and his goblins were aware of her presence. It wasn't immediately clear to her exactly how many combatants were coming after her, but she saw one was quite big and angry (Klarg), so rather than take on all of them, she came back down the chimney; clearly followed by the two goblins. The group moved back toward the main tunnel to obtain a position of cover from which they could pick off the goblins, but the goblins held back not wanting to take on an unknown group of combatant themselves. The group then moved back outside the tunnel, again planning to ambush the monsters as they came out. But they didn't come out. Seconds went by. Shouting was heard from inside, while the party tensely waited to leap upon whatever came out. More seconds and shouting, and then splashes. They peaked in and saw Klarg had gathered the entire cavern to kill whatever was invading the hideout. Realizing they were in deep trouble they immediately ran, and as the goblins came out, they got a few shots off at them; but I figured goblins being goblins, they wouldn't chase too hard. But Klarg and his wolf did, and eventually, the PCs (having slowed Klarg with a spell) were only chased by the wolf, who they managed to kill. They had been wounded quite a bit from the goblins arrows, so they found a safe place in the forest to rest. The next day they carefully found and dispatched the new goblin guards, and made their way through the cave, though now the goblins were more alert.