Ability score enhancement, bonus spells or not ??

[skunian]

Hey there, wonder if you all can help me clear something up. Is there a definitive answer on whether or not items that add to ability scores (like a periapt of wisdom) allow you to take the bonus spells granted for a high wisdom. We currently use a system like this. Permanent or semi permanent (i.e. no duration, like items) allow for extra spells. Any bonus that is not permanent (has a set duration, like bulls str) does not. Anyone know if/where there is an official rule on this?

Thanks

 

[Crothian]

I can't quote you the official rule, but you do have it right.

 

[kreynolds]

Techinically, if a wizard casts a spell that grants a bonus to Intelligence, and he can rest and study his spells quickly enough, he would temporarily gain the bonus spell slots and could fill them. Obviously, this is all dependant on time constraints. Whenever you gain an ability enhancement, no matter where it comes from, you gain all of the bonuses in acordance with that ability increase.

Also, it's important to note that the instant the Intelligence bonus granting spell expires, the wizard would also instantly lose the bonus spell slots and spells contained within.

 

[EOL]

This is one of the reasons why spells that increase your spell casting stat are fairly rare, and generally have some provision that limits your ability to get bonus spells. If casting a 2nd level spell gives you an additional 2nd level slot (plus a couple of others) then you suddenly have a situation where it cost nothing to cast the spell, and then the situation arises where you would never not cast the spell.

Obviously this is something you have to be very careful about.

 

[Number47]

I think this is the exact reason they did not include spells that increased mental stats in the core rules. Then, of course, Munchkin mania took over.

 

[dcollins]

Certainly item-enhancers allow extra spells. Look closely at the sample Cleric NPC (DMG p. 51) and you'll see that his spells per day is boosted by the periapt of wisdom he has.

 

[Abraxas]

kreynolds wrote
Techinically, if a wizard casts a spell that grants a bonus to Intelligence, and he can rest and study his spells quickly enough, he would temporarily gain the bonus spell slots and could fill them.

Just a comment - If the wizard is using the Fox's Cunning spell to increase his intelligence he does not get bonus spells - just bonuses to INT based skills and an increase in save DC's for spells (see pg 90 of Tome & Blood).

This same limitation is true for the spells that increase charisma ( Eagle's Splendor ) and wisdom ( Owl's Wisdom ).

I don't recall other spells that increase the three mental stats so I don't know if other spells lack this restriction.

 

[Crothian]

I don't recall other spells that increase the three mental stats so I don't know if other spells lack this restriction.

THe versions of those spells in RElics and Rituals do increase your spells per day, but they only work once a week per person.

 

[kreynolds]

Just a comment - If the wizard is using the Fox's Cunning spell to increase his intelligence he does not get bonus spells - just bonuses to INT based skills and an increase in save DC's for spells

Naturally, but it's such a low level spell that isn't a surprise. Consider a 9th level version of the same type of spell. I'm not trying to steer this thread into a custom spell or anything. I'm just addressing the basic building blocks of magical bonuses to stats. I fully agree with Number47. I'm just saying that under 3rd edition, it's possible. Thankfully, though, the spell designers were careful and made sure that Fox's Cunning wasn't misinterpreted. You gotta love WotC when they're careful and explicit.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think that technically a spell which lasted for 24 hours or more would allow you to get the benefit of memorising more spells - so a 12th level wizard who cast extended Foxes Cunning (should the spell be allowed from MaoF) should be able to prepare spells with his boosted intelligence. The earliest it would be possible to do this would be at 9th level casting a doubly extended Foxes Cunning (which would be a fourth level spell). The SRD doesn't have the "bonus spells for INT" chart, but check to see at what INT you get a second 3rd level or 2nd 4th level spell - I'm guessing that it is quite a high value... probably high enough that the Foxes Cunning isn't going to start a perpetual loop for intelligence boosting



This question came up on Monte Cooks boards (IIRC) regarding psions and their Animal Affinity power; the "24 hour" thing was the solution/rationale posted there.