A wasp swarm as a druid's companion?

[Pielorinho]

A player in my game wants to play a first-level druid with a swarm of wasps as his companion. I've let him do this for the past several sessions (and I don't think I've started a thread about it yet), but I think our compromise has been less than satisfying, and I wanted to get some ideas from other folks on how better to manage it.

First, I've added in a druid orison: Deep Woods Off. It's got a distance of touch, a duration of 1 hour and anyone under its effect will not be attacked by any vermin swarm in which they find themselves, as long as that swarm is made up of fine vermin.

Second, I've ruled that the druid himself is always immune to the deleterious effects of his own swarm.

Third, I've created a Wasp Swarm monster by starting with a Spider Swarm, removing the poison damage and climb speed, and adding in a fly speed of 30. (I figure that with the poison damage AND a fly speed, it becomes too powerful).

Fourth, I've ruled that since they're mindless, they essentially get two tricks: Swarm and Settle Down. When they swarm, they form a normal 10' cube swarm, with the druid in one corner of it and otherwise swarming to attack as many living critters as they can (allies or enemies, doesn't matter ot them). When they settle down, they all crawl back into the druid's clothing.

I set it up this way because if the swarm was directable, it could become an extremely vicious attack: unless the enemy had some way of doing area damage, the enemy would have no chance of surviving the attack. If the swarm stays around the druid, on the other hand, then the druid himself has to enter danger in order to get the wasps to do so.

Does this sound balanced to folks? As it is, I think this swarm has been less useful in fights than, say, a wolf would be: the druid is uncomfortable bringing it out in fights wherein he's standing next to his friends, since it'll hurt them too. But if I make it directable, then it's basically like a wolf that doesn't trip but that always hits, cannot be hit itself, disrupts spellcasting, and often nauseates enemies.

Daniel

 

[Ferret]

A tricky descision, I would make a smaller less powerful 5ft cube one that is directable. I think your solution ATM is col except that you can't use it around team members.

Nice idea though.

 

[the Jester]

I think a swarm animal companion would be... problematic. At best.

I've thought a lot about it myself and haven't yet worked out how to manage it. I think you have a reasonable approach going on, but there are a couple of factors you may be overlooking. First, wasps are vermin, not animals. Second, a swarm isn't really a single creature, though the rules treat it like one. (Though I'd be willing to give in on this one because of the 'treat as one creature' clause, I can see a good argument here.)

I personally think a swarm is too good to make an animal companion because a lot of things have no defense against it- especially if it is a swarm of fine creatures. If the party faces a dire boar, they just have to keep out of reach long enough for the swarm to kill it. I don't like that, but YMMV.

 

[ARandomGod]

It does seem problematic. However if you haven't had an issue yet... as the druid levels the swarm is more and more likely to encounter things that can damage it (area of effect spells, breathe weapons, alchemical fire, etc).

Eventually I'd advance it to occupy every five foot square around the druid, similiar to the threat range of a melee attack. And the good thing about this swarm is that it's easily adjustable. Insects don't live all that long, and if you start to hate this it can die of old age. As the swarm ages it can gain or lose abilities as some of it's members get born/die.

I like the idea of not being able to use it around team members. Gives it a definite drawback.

I don't have spider swarm here, so I can't really look at it and compare it to, say, the wolf (which I also don't have here but I'm more familiar with). I will say however that a wolf companion is a pretty hefty companion, druids are very powerful with their animal companions, and the swarm seems to be easily manegable by the GM so that it maintains a "proper" balance. I personally like that it can be adjusted upwards without having to switch out companions.

 

[Pielorinho]

there are a couple of factors you may be overlooking. First, wasps are vermin, not animals. Second, a swarm isn't really a single creature, though the rules treat it like one. (Though I'd be willing to give in on this one because of the 'treat as one creature' clause, I can see a good argument here.)

As for these, I definitely realize these; that's why this is in house rules and not in the rules forum . There's no question but that the rules as written don't allow vermin swarms as an animal companion.

I personally think a swarm is too good to make an animal companion because a lot of things have no defense against it- especially if it is a swarm of fine creatures. If the party faces a dire boar, they just have to keep out of reach long enough for the swarm to kill it. I don't like that, but YMMV.

No, I agree entirely with this problem, which is why I added in the limitation that the swarm can't go beyond the druid. (The 5' cube is an interesting idea, but it runs exactly into the boar-killer problem, and indeed can become a giant-killer for a first-level party).

I don't have spider swarm here

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersS.html#spider-swarm

The most significant abilities it has are
-Automatically hits anything occupying its space.
-Anything that begins a turn in the swarms space must make a DC11 fort check or be nauseated.
-Anything that tries to cast spells in the swarm must make a concentration check DC20+spell level (I think).
-Immune to weapon damage. (If I can come up with a plausible way to nerf this, I'd be a lot more willing to give the swarm the ability to be directed--maybe allow grapple checks against it to represent rolling around on the ground squashing the wasps?)
-Tremorsense allowing it to attack invisible creatures.

Compare to a wolf's:
-Better HP
-Ability to trip
-Better damage when it hits.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Also, we've only played with the swarm through two sessions, and they only came out to attack in one of the four combats so far, which makes me think they may have been overly-nerfed, or else that the player hasn't got the hang of how to use them (I suspect that there's two problems: first, as a spellcaster he's likelier to be hanging out on the back tier than mixing it up in combat; and second, if he's on the front row, he doesn't want to risk hurting his allies).

Would it be too powerful if he could make a simple poultice to give to his allies that would protect them from the wasp's stings?

Daniel

 

[ARandomGod]

(The 5' cube is an interesting idea, but it runs exactly into the boar-killer problem, and indeed can become a giant-killer for a first-level party).

Well, save it for when the druid could instead get a higher level companion, of course!

OK, it autohits for d6 damage. Good... you could nerf this to d3 and raise it later (I'd probably be tempted to). While that might allow more directibility I personally don't like the directiblity option. Even at high levels if I were GM this thing would always have a set radius and be basically uncontrollable, I like it that your "friends" have to beware of you.

Fort DC is only 11, but if they fail: "Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn."

That's pretty nasty. Another good reason to move the damage back down to d3 (you can do this in game by having the swarm suffer some damage, it will take a while to build back up to strength).

I didn't see the reference to the spellcasters needing to make a concentration check.

Overall I don't think it's too bad. I might lower the damage to d3 for a very low level druid, but I'd raise it shortly back to d6. I wouldn't ever give it the poison, but I would increase the radius gradually, until the druid either dismissed the swarm or it reaches each five foot square the druid could threaten with a non-ranged melee weapon... Maybe if I felt it needed a boost I'd make it as large as a reach weapon. (10ft) at high levels. Maybe not though.

 

[ARandomGod]

Also, we've only played with the swarm through two sessions, and they only came out to attack in one of the four combats so far, which makes me think they may have been overly-nerfed, or else that the player hasn't got the hang of how to use them (I suspect that there's two problems: first, as a spellcaster he's likelier to be hanging out on the back tier than mixing it up in combat; and second, if he's on the front row, he doesn't want to risk hurting his allies).

Would it be too powerful if he could make a simple poultice to give to his allies that would protect them from the wasp's stings?

Daniel

Hrmm... Now the fact that he's a spellcaster and will most likely stay in the back is the biggest reason why I think it's balanced... that and the chance of hurting his friends (but only if they're close to him!).

A poultice. Well, at about the price of a tanglefoot bag it might be workable. I say if you want to see it used more, do it. After all, this is another area where you can easily in game take away a benifit once given. Simple advance the swarm to be immune to that poultice!

 

[Pielorinho]

Hmm...making the poultice as expensive as a tanglefoot bag would actually make it worse than the orison he already has. I was thinking of a way that would allow him to use it in up-close combat, a straight-up buff, since currently it's a bad idea for him to do so.

I might end up knocking the damage down to 1d3 if I do that, depending on how powerful the nausea power ends up proving. Maybe I should look on this animal companion as essentially a magekiller?

Daniel

 

[Nareau]

As the player in question, here are my thoughts:

First off, my interest in having the swarm came purely out of wanting "something different" for my druid. I had no idea how effective a swarm would be in combat until after Piel and I started talking rules.

I find that this critter is essentially the "combat optimized" animal companion: immune to weapons, automatically does damage, and prevents opponents from attacking. It has no tricks, so can't do any of the "normal" animal companion stuff (scouting, tracking, fetching, etc.)

I think that since it lacks these other abilities, its combat prowess shouldn't be taken down too far. As has been mentioned, I've only been able to bring it out in one combat so far. The others have seen me in too-close quarters, casting spells from the back line, or unable to get close enough to my enemies to attack. If I had taken a wolf or a hawk, I would have gotten 5 or 6 times more effectiveness out of my companion than I already have.

It is an interesting dilemma. On the one hand, this creature is extremely effective in certain situations. But it is virtually useless most of the time. I think the ultimate solution would be to try and bring it into line with other animal companions:

1) Give it an intelligence score, allowing it to learn more tricks
2) Allow it to move independently of the PC; possibly within a certain range (like 50')
3) Reduce its space to 5'
4) Reduce the "nauseated" effect to something lesser--like sickened for 1 round
5) Possibly reduce the movement to 20' Fly (Perfect)

This would make it much more like the wolf (trip, scent) or the eagle (3 attacks, 80' Fly) It could potentially suppress the enemy's abilities, and it could fly.

I dunno...I'll have to think on how *I'd* handle it if I were DMing...

Spider