D&D 5E A variant initiative that worked great

[NeutralSebastian]

So I came up with a variant to initiative and ran a long session using it, and I could not be happier with the result. We got through 6 encounters (plus roleplaying, exploring, etc.) in a 5 hour session.

First, choose an "initiative DC" for the combat. I went with 12 as the default, but higher if the enemies have a good initiative, the party was somewhat unaware or whatever.

Everyone in the party rolls their initiative.

There is a round where the players who beat the target DC get to go, in whatever order they choose.

Then all the monsters go, in whatever order I choose.

Then all the players go, in whatever order they choose.

And so on, the two sides taking turns until the combat ends.

There is nothing to write down, but there is still a powerful benefit to a good initiative modifier and a good roll.

There's a slight problem in that a spellcaster could use a spell with a "one round" duration and abuse the system, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and maybe rule that if a caster casts such a spell, players only get to act once while its duration is in effect.

I'm calling it "Sebastian Initiative" (I name my D&D stuff after my favorite character) It worked brilliantly and sped up combat a *lot*.

 

[Satyrn]

Well I like this very much.

I'm gonna steal it and use it in all my games from the past two years.

 

[cthulhu42]

Interesting. A couple of questions to clarify.

So group A is the party members who beat the DC, and Group B are the party members who don't. So you're order goes, Group A, then monsters, then Group B, then back to Group A, then monsters, Group B, and so on, correct? That's probably self evident, but I wanted to be sure.

Do they get to decide player order each time their group comes up in the initiative, or is it set in stone after the first time?

Did the players figuring out which order they'd go in take a lot of time? You said it sped up combat a lot, so I'm assuming not, but I can sure see my players meta gaming the heck out of this system and it taking a fair amount of time while they decided which order gave them optimum performance.

 

[Satyrn]

Let me answer for my group, since we've been doing this for a couple years now.

Interesting. A couple of questions to clarify.

So group A is the party members who beat the DC, and Group B are the party members who don't. So you're order goes, Group A, then monsters, then Group B, then back to Group A, then monsters, Group B, and so on, correct? That's probably self evident, but I wanted to be sure.

It's Group A, then monsters, then Group AB. (AB is not a typo). In a way it means winning initiative gives Group A a bonus turn. This has worked fine.

Do they get to decide player order each time their group comes up in the initiative, or is it set in stone after the first time?

each round they can go in any order.

Did the players figuring out which order they'd go in take a lot of time? You said it sped up combat a lot, so I'm assuming not, but I can sure see my players meta gaming the heck out of this system and it taking a fair amount of time while they decided which order gave them optimum performance.

It's faster. A lot of the time it's simply because while one person is trying to figure out what to do, or looking up a rule to verify something someone else can jump in with a more straightforward action that's readily resolved.

As for that "metagaming" - I consider it a bonus that works well in representing the cohesion of the group, of tbem working well together executing well practiced tactics and the like.

The important thing is to limit how much time the group spends coordinating their actions. Of course, it's probably only going to be a problem for your table if you've already got that problem with people taking forever to decide their individual actions.

Oh. And one headache I could predict happening with at least some groups. The players still need to buy into the fact that each character is indeed an individual character, and no decisions about the group's coordinated actions should be used to force a player (I absolutely mean the player) into doing what he doesn't want to.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sounds like a slight variant on Side Initiative. Which is a great way to handle it, for sure.

 

[TurinTurambar]

Nice idea! It seems to me known, tho. The Black Hack I think.

 

[CubicsRube]

Yeah, it's been done for a long time. It's a gold method though. My preferred.

 

[Sunseeker]

This is a good system...except when fights become highly tactical. It can be very easy for one side or the other to be significantly coordinated enough to absolutely decimate the other side, especially if your party (or the enemies) focus fire. That's not to say this is bad, it's just something to be aware of. Not that you can't be tactical in return, but it's a really easy way to get people to stop playing support characters.

I tend to do what I call "Block Initiative" since I like to run larger groups (6+) of enemies, I break them up into teams of 2 spread out between the players. I will roll a single init roll which will determine the highest group and then every-other-player or so another group of 2 goes. It pares down the risk of a tactical onslaught from one side or the other, and allows for more fluid tactical adjustments throughout combat.

 

[Guest 6801328]

What about instead of setting a DC, you let the monsters roll first and that is the DC?

 

[NeutralSebastian]

So my group is not a group of super-power-gamey forum reading optimizers. The Wizards is, but that's kind of what you want in a Wizard.

To me, having the players play more tactically and look for mechanical advantages is a GOOD thing. I can always through trickier combats at them or have the monsters act more intelligently in response.

As for the enemy roll, sure, you could do that. But the goal here is for combat to go really quickly so a lot of encounters can be fit into a single session, so anything that cuts down on time is good.

I also prepare each encounter in notes on a sheet of graph paper and just have a block of squares for each monster where a square equals 5 hp and tick off an estimate (26 damage = 5 squares) when they are damaged. Little things that cut down on extra rolls or mental math or record keeping speeds up combat a lot in aggregate, and a session is a LOT more fun when you don't get bogged down and combat goes quickly.

I don't like theater of the mind, I think there are too many abilities that get a lot less interesting without a grid, but a grid slows down the game. I try to make up for it elsewhere.