D&D 5E A question about the Entertainer Background and proficiencies

[JCAB]

So the "Entertainer" backgrounds grant you proficiency in the Performance skill, as well as one musical instrument. However, reading the general on proficiency (p. 173) and the description of being proficient with a musical instrument (p. 154), it seems as if merely having the Performance skill, would mean that you are in effect going to always add your proficiency bonus to all rolls to play any instrument.

Is this reading correct?

If so, do people feel that the Entertainer background, which grants you proficiency in Performance (as well as Athletics) and One Musical Instrument, should be altered? As it stands (if my reading of the rules are correct), the background effectively "waste" a toll proficiency, by making you proficient with a tool you are already proficient with, regardless of any of the other choices you have made during character creation.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

First, hello, welcome to ENWorld!

Secondly, no, I'd disagree with you, I'm afraid.

The rules say "Each type of musical instrument requires a separate proficiency".

Your Performance proficiency covers "music, dance, acting, storytelling or some other form of entertainment". The "natural language" wording indicates that you, as a player, make a choice as to where your talent lies, IMO.

As instrument proficiencies are a separate thing, I view that "Music" in this (second quote) context, if the character has not got proficiency in a musical instrument, would mean song, or perhaps virtuoso whistling, or percussion (beat out a crazy syncopated rhythm on that bar counter, daddy-o), or playing the spoons (perhaps the latter would qualify as "other form of entertainment", to be fair, along with puppetry, shadow puppetry, mime, stand up comedy, etc).

Example 1: I can sing (Performance proficiency), but cannot play an instrument. If I sang a song (Performance check), I'd get my proficiency bonus. If, however, I attempted to accompany myself on guitar, my lack of skill would counteract my proficiency bonus (in reality, I'd make such a jangling sonic nightmare that no matter how in tune my voice was, I'd still be booed off the stage and quite possibly shivved as I left, but in-game I'd rule that you lose the proficiency bonus).

Example 2: I can both play the guitar (Tool Proficiency) and sing (Performance). If I strummed my guitar in my performance, either as an accompaniment to my song, or on its own as an instrumental, I'd get my proficiency bonus. But put a violin in my hands and I'd make a sound like a dozen cats being castrated. Again with the booing and the shiv. I'd need Tool Proficiency in both instruments.

Example 3: I can play guitar (Tool Proficiency) but cannot sing (no Performance proficiency). The audience are spellbound by my intricate fretwork if I play an instrumental. But if I sing along my voice may come out flat and out of tune, I may honk and squeak like a goose humping a mouse: either way it would counteract my beautiful guitar-playing bonus.

The Entertainer background is not the only way a character can acquire the Tool Proficiency with a given instrument. Particularly where a race or class provide a Tool Proficiency that the chosen Background, whatever it is, already provides (or just by player choice for colour), a PC may choose to have proficiency in an instrument without proficiency in Performance - for example, the gruff drill sergeant who his troops would never imagine goes off on his own to the hills above camp and in seclusion plays the most heartbreakingly beautiful flute in memory of his lost love, but would never ever be seen dead giving a public performance. Or, perhaps, he is a Warlock who communes with his Patron by calling it up using the flute.

Mechanically, a player may hand-wave things, saying "I do some music", but the entertainer background is one of the more colourful backgrounds and deserves a bit more RP attention...eg, "I sing a lament to the lost Elven village of Shothimintheda'ark" or "I'll get up and play a lively reel like The Innkeeper's Daughter, that should get the crowd going".

Ymmv.

 

[redrick]

So the "Entertainer" backgrounds grant you proficiency in the Performance skill, as well as one musical instrument. However, reading the general on proficiency (p. 173) and the description of being proficient with a musical instrument (p. 154), it seems as if merely having the Performance skill, would mean that you are in effect going to always add your proficiency bonus to all rolls to play any instrument.

Is this reading correct?

If so, do people feel that the Entertainer background, which grants you proficiency in Performance (as well as Athletics) and One Musical Instrument, should be altered? As it stands (if my reading of the rules are correct), the background effectively "waste" a toll proficiency, by making you proficient with a tool you are already proficient with, regardless of any of the other choices you have made during character creation.

G. Barrelhouse Esq. more or less hits this one on the head.

It's also worth noting that tool proficiency can be useful for more than just playing the instrument. With proficiency in lutes, you can tune a lute, possibly repair a lute, learn something about how and when a lute was made by studying it, etc. When it comes to your own form of music-making and performing, this is just a distinction of flavor, but when encountering musicians and instruments in the wild, it could be very helpful to have proficiency in a particular instrument.

 

[Ashrym]

Another important point is that performance is a CHA check but complex musical pieces with am instrument are DEX checks. This places DEX and CHA entertainers on better common ground as entertainers. An 18 DEX rogue fiddler can be just as entertaining as an 18 CHA bard storyteller.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

And a final point to keep in mind is that backgrounds are purely example templates. The PHB (and basic rules) explicitly tell you that you can customize a background or make your own. See Basic Rules p. 36.

Be aware that this isn't a variant rule (like variant human), nor an optional rule available only if your DM tells you (like multiclassing or feats), nor even an expanded option (like the paladin class or half-elf race). It is a core choice, like a champion fighter or a hill dwarf, or a battleaxe. A DM is free to disallow it just like anything else, but needs to be aware that by so doing they are disallowing something that is presented as a core player option.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Hey -- welcome to the boards.

there is an overlap, for sure, but I don't think you're "wasting a proficiency". (Compare the bard, where a musical instrument is the spell casting focus, but you can apparently just hold it up in one hand to gain the benefit, and you don't need proficiency; that's an additional factor, and it does show some confusion in the rules about music for sure.)

Every table might explain the difference differently. Certainly I can understand someone being a technically competent guitarist but not being good in front of crowds; I'm probably the reverse in that I have sung songs in front of audiences, but there is no objective way to demonstrate that I have been playing my mandolin for 20 years. So I get how they're separate.

And I like the thought of bards not all being automatic performers, that that becomes a character choice.

The best part about your dilemma, though, is that if you don't like these explanations, you're dealing with the rules that the PHB gives you explicit authorization to tinker with: you can alter backgrounds, make your own, and freely swap proficiencies.

If you don't want your character to be an instrumentalist, say he used to travel a lot and take proficiency in vehicles (land). Or whatever. Custom backgrounds are a way for the rules to give everyone two tools/languages, two skills, and one other bonus ability. Develop the story you want, and then mix and match to produce what you want. (PHB p. 125).

Hope this helps.

 

[David Bond]

another thing people are forgetting is the magical bardic instruments...

if you are not proficient in that instrument, you may fail to activate the magic

 

[Kobold Stew]

That's true! Thanks, and welcome to the boards (even in an old thread )