D&D 5E A Maze that works in actual play?

[Quickleaf]

In part of the high-level (15th-16th) dungeon I'm working on, there's a multi-tiered garden that is enchanted with a "powerful dweomer making its winding path act like a maze spell." (quote from a Dragon magazine article I used for a bit of inspiration)

I'm trying to devise an interesting and playable way to evoke the feel of a magical maze without using the maze spell's mechanics (which aren't that conducive to exploring). Would love to hear your thoughts, experiences, or ideas

I thought about using the complex trap layout from Unearthed Arcana Traps Revisited, but that didn't really fit what I was doing here. Yet it's a bit too complex to fit neatly into the flow of regular text. I'm thinking I need to devise my own format for presenting this puzzle/trick.

The area layout is very roughly like this (with 16 areas I've devised in the garden)...

[SBLOCK=rough layout]

[/SBLOCK]

The red line indicates a stone-and-metal lattice (something like the picture of jalis below) with razorvine climbing over it. There are passageways into the gardens through the lattice. However, once a creature enters the gardens proper it suffers from this powerful dweomer preventing it from finding the exits out. The dweomer is a mix of enchantment & illusion... lattices appear completely covered in razorvine... affected creatures wander by potential exits without even realizing, gradually losing interest in escaping.

[SBLOCK=Jalis lattice]

[/SBLOCK]

There will be countermeasures. For starters, creatures immune to being charmed and immune to maze spells are unaffected. Similarly, creatures speaking the command word before entering are unaffected. Spells like find the path or transport via plants may allow creatures to escape. Searching for an exit is possible given 10 minutes and an Intelligence saving throw; on a success a creature finds a way out for itself, but on a failure it wanders in a dream-like trance to a random area of the gardens.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-​

I read Angry GM's article about mazes which I'll summarize:

[SECTION]Mazes generally suck in D&D. But you *can* do an interesting maze if you include some of the following...

Tension arises when there is an element of danger to remaining in the maze.
Uncertain solution arises when the PCs need to solve an actual puzzle to find the exit.
Meaningful choice arises when there are clues at intersections allowing PCs to exit faster & avoid dangers.
Mapping challenge to discover secret rooms or reveal teleporter tricks.[/SECTION]

 

[Croesus]

Uncertain solution arises when the PCs need to solve an actual puzzle to find the exit.
Meaningful choice arises when there are clues at intersections allowing PCs to exit faster & avoid dangers.

One stray thought on the above is to integrate information from the designer into the maze as clues. Perhaps his dead lover was fond of certain flowers that he puts on her grave each year. That flower is woven into the maze at certain points, showing safe areas or the path out. Similarly, the symbol for whatever killed her leads to danger or just deeper into the maze.

Alternately, the maze was designed originally as a test, kind of like a mid-term exam. If the PCs find his journal (or just his old "school books"), they'll find clues to solving it. Something along the lines of Advanced Potion Making in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.

 

[pogre]

Mapping challenge to discover secret rooms or reveal teleporter tricks.

Have to disagree with this one for the folks I play with - mapping challenge = boring.

We could be outliers. I know mapping was a big part of the game when I started in the 70s. Have to say, I do not miss it.

 

[MNblockhead]

Have to disagree with this one for the folks I play with - mapping challenge = boring.

We could be outliers. I know mapping was a big part of the game when I started in the 70s. Have to say, I do not miss it.

Same here. What I've done however is use a VTT or RealmWorks with Fog of War that allows me to progressively reveal sections of the maze that the players have explored. It is not that much more work for me as a DM, but allows the party to get a progressively revealed map to help them discover secret rooms, etc.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The key with a mapping challenge is that 'mapping' should be as simple as "drawing a set of interconnected blobs", not "draw out the exact shape of each room on a grid". And it should be triggered by something other than "one of the players has been keenly keeping a map". Telling the players that they're entering a room that is identical to one they've already passed through for instance.

 

[Quickleaf]

One stray thought on the above is to integrate information from the designer into the maze as clues. Perhaps his dead lover was fond of certain flowers that he puts on her grave each year. That flower is woven into the maze at certain points, showing safe areas or the path out. Similarly, the symbol for whatever killed her leads to danger or just deeper into the maze.

Alternately, the maze was designed originally as a test, kind of like a mid-term exam. If the PCs find his journal (or just his old "school books"), they'll find clues to solving it. Something along the lines of Advanced Potion Making in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.

The idea of dispersing clues throughout the maze is appealing.

On one hand, if the clues go toward finding a means to escape (without casting spells & without relying on risky Int saves), that rewards players paying attention and piecing together the clues.

OTOH, if the clues go to *something else* in the greater dungeon/adventure, that gives a reason to return & explore the maze gardens (whereas, as soon as they learn about the puzzle/trick enchanting the gardens, they'd otherwise tend to avoid the maze if possible).

 

[Quickleaf]

The key with a mapping challenge is that 'mapping' should be as simple as "drawing a set of interconnected blobs", not "draw out the exact shape of each room on a grid". And it should be triggered by something other than "one of the players has been keenly keeping a map". Telling the players that they're entering a room that is identical to one they've already passed through for instance.

Yeah, the basic principle is to establish patterns in the architecture/design/building/dungeon and then break them. The lack of an alcove in the SW corner of the Chieftain's Tomb is unusual when there are alcoves in the rest of the tomb, and even more suspect when there is no alcove in the adjoining High Priest's Tomb in the SE corner, no alcove in the adjoining Wokani's Tomb in the NE corner, and no alcove in the adjoining Tomb of Queens in the NW corner. Don't even need a map to figure that out, if the descriptions are clear & some of the players have good spatial sense.

 

[Redthistle]

Damned intriguing challenge.

My few attempts over the decades at designing a maze that keeps the players engaged without getting bored/irritated achieved only meager success.

This is proving to be educational.

P.S. Hope your Al-Qadim play-testing is going well.

 

[MNblockhead]

Don't even need a map to figure that out, if the descriptions are clear & some of the players have good spatial sense.

So this is the crux of my issue with most mapping challenges. If the player's character has stats, skills, and experience that makes them have far better spatial awareness and mapping skills than the player (e.g. they are playing a minotaur from Unearthed Arcana with its Labyrinthine Recall feature), are you punishing the player by limiting the character to the player's ability?

I know that in old-school DnD, being a skilled player was more important and a lot of the work of not getting lost, solving puzzles and riddles, and even finding traps were placed on the shoulders of the real-live players. But that really does not seem to be the norm for most games now.

Personally, I like to mix both approaches. For example, if the players are presented with a riddle or puzzle, I may let them try to work it out themselves as players for a while if they enjoy that sort of thing, but if they can't, a skill or ability check may present them with a hint or solution.

It seems more difficult to do that with mapping.

 

[Quickleaf]

Damned intriguing challenge.

My few attempts over the decades at designing a maze that keeps the players engaged without getting bored/irritated achieved only meager success.

This is proving to be educational.

P.S. Hope your Al-Qadim play-testing is going well.

Playtesting is slow, but still going at it, thanks. Dang thing called real life.

Yeah, I've had the same experience as well. The closest I came to an interesting maze was running Planescape – short version, two players entered one of the Lady of Pain's mazes to find a mazed villain who had information they needed. I set up a teleporter puzzle in the maze, with lots of clues about the maze having a metaphorical meaning of the villain being "trapped in the past." Various archways - on certain sides of each teleporter door – had symbols, some of which were associated with the future (e.g. children, seeds/saplings) and some associated with the past (e.g. elders, old trees). I think the solution was walking backward through a "past" arch. Been a while. Basically, the whole thing was gathering clues to deduce a solution to a puzzle keeping them trapped within.

That approach might apply well to what I'm attempting here, actually.

So this is the crux of my issue with most mapping challenges. If the player's character has stats, skills, and experience that makes them have far better spatial awareness and mapping skills than the player (e.g. they are playing a minotaur from Unearthed Arcana with its Labyrinthine Recall feature), are you punishing the player by limiting the character to the player's ability?

I know that in old-school DnD, being a skilled player was more important and a lot of the work of not getting lost, solving puzzles and riddles, and even finding traps were placed on the shoulders of the real-live players. But that really does not seem to be the norm for most games now.

Personally, I like to mix both approaches. For example, if the players are presented with a riddle or puzzle, I may let them try to work it out themselves as players for a while if they enjoy that sort of thing, but if they can't, a skill or ability check may present them with a hint or solution.

It seems more difficult to do that with mapping.

I don't feel a need to dictate a "right way" in regard to character skill & player skill. Every DM has their own approach. Personally, I'm always engaging both, even if my natural inclinations are to emphasize player creativity and skill.

For example, with my garden maze scenario, a player might be running a PC proficient in cartography. He might ask, "Hey, we've been wandering around unable to find an exit. I know about maps. Do I notice anything unusual about the construction?"

And I would say, "Yeah, you've been taking some sketches and mental maps, and you're pretty certain there must be a 10-foot wide circular passage wrapping around the razorvine-covered lattices on each level of the gardens."