D&D 5E A Character That Absorbs and/or Nullifies Magic?

[doctorbadwolf]

I gave up on this a while ago, for my rogue/wizard, and he just has a sword that can cast Absorb Elements, Counterspell, and Dispel Magic.

However, I still have this idea that is just something I feel DnD and a lot of other games just don't have any way to model, that I would really love to be able to play.

Specifically, that is a character who can consume magic. Not a proper spellcaster, because there just aren't enough spells that do this sort of thing, but probably they'd have access to the spells listed above. Obviously they'd want to take Mage Slayer, but I'd want to see a subclass for this, not rely on a feat to do it.

I've had ideas for a Paladin Oath that simply gets the above spells, and a couple new XYZ Smite spells that focus on spell-eating, like the Spell-Bane Smite I proposed a while ago, and use in my games. Basically, you cast it, and if someone casts a spell within 15 feet of you during the spell's duration, you can move up to 15ft and attack them as a reaction, and they must pass a constitution save or waste the spell, and take 1d6 force damage.

Another spell I have kicking around to model this idea is an arcane feedback spell that attacks the magical bond between a caster and an effect that they have brought into the world that requires concentration. So, a conjured creature, a wall of fire, whatever. Maybe two spells, here.

One would simply be an advanced dispel magic that is specific to concentration spells with a source within 120ft of the spell effect, force a concentration check that is the higher of 10+spell level or your spell save DC, and deal decent damage if they fail, with half damage if they succeed. (thus forcing a second, less difficult, concentration save)

The other would be specific to spells that summon or create a creature or object with hit points. (can't recall if 5e has any spells that conjure an object that would have hit points, tbh) You deal damage to the target, and until the spell ends, any damage the target takes, half of that damage is sent back to the creature that summoned or created it, as you try to consume the magical power that bonds the two together.


However, I'd also be down to reimagine these as non-spell abilities, and make the subclass not technically ever use magic. Give them advantage on saves against magic at some point, the ability to create a sort of shield around themselves that absorbs some part of any magic that tries to touch them, etc. let them heal themselves with the consumed energy, maybe, but also gain half the benefit from external healing? Too fiddly?

 

[ZeshinX]

I've had not too dissimilar ideas like this, though the major difference being the lack of a (dedicated) spellcaster as a base. Concepts similar to the Occult Slayer PrC of 3.x and the Paladin's 2e Inquisitor kit (and it's variant from the Baldur's Gate 2 PC game).

I always seems to come back to this idea, toss some nebulous concepts around in my head, then it tends to fizzle as it always seemed to be too narrow in concept (i.e. REALLY good at battling/negating spellcasters....but at best slightly below mediocre at most everything else). It was a kind of an Intelligent Fighter style thing (in my mind anyway). The Mage Slayer 5e feat obviously brought those thoughts up again, and the process I just described occurred again.

Some ideas I thought of (but never did anything other than think of them):

-A subclass ability (evolving or static) that disrupted concentration (basically something that forced a concentration check every round, regardless of damage possibly taken by the concentrating spellcaster). If evolving, something that would not necessarily increase the difficulty of any concentration checks, but just increases the effective radius from the character (or possibly different modes of operation...like a focused vs radius effect...the focused would have a very limited range of effect/affect only one target, with slightly increased difficulty on the check vs a wider net effect with no impact on difficulty and affected any enemy within that net). Other conditionals could exist, like affecting ALL within the field, though could evolve over levels to allow the character to exclude specific PCs/NPCs and the like (similar to the Sculpt Spells ability of the Invoker). This ability concept always came up as a foundational kit/PrC/subclass ability, since it could disrupt often, but wasn't an immediate or always effective hoser, so it still left a challenging/not-OP element

-A sort of smiting/bonus damage strike (much like the Occult Slayer's ability) to add extra damage when striking a spellcaster that evolved as you levelled up. Not exactly overly inventive, but doesn't feel out of place either. Perhaps replace damage or allow trading damage for additional effects (like a list of things you can learn to apply to the strikes by sacrificing a certain number of extra damage dice, kinda/sorta like the Battlemaster, like silencing a hit target for a round or more on a failed save, forcing a concentration check on the next spell cast, even instantaneous spells, prevent casting certain level spells lower/higher than a certain level upon a failed save for a round or more, etc).

-Some sort of resistance to the effects of (arcane or divine) spells upon the character. This could be enforced for any spell (even if a willing recipient) depending on the flavouring of the kit/PrC/subclass. Not an outright immunity (perhaps at very high levels some sort of immunity, usable a certain number of times/rest or something like that), but things to make it more difficult than usual to affect them with spells. Could be a deflection-like ability (see the Occult Slayer), some kind of absorption to potentially link it to the above concept (absorb spell levels to power the possible rider abilities to forego sacrificing the extra damage) or convert the absorbed spells into a small healing ability (can absorb spells based on your class level up to a certain spell level, translates to something like 1d4 healing/level absorbed...spontaneous, can't store it), or specific to 5e, allow a times/rest option to gain advantage on a save vs. a spell, etc.

Those were the three that always seemed to come to mind in some variation or another, but again, it always fizzled away as being too narrow. I could never really find a way to make it fit the theme of a sort of anti-magic concept without overly sacrificing its effectiveness for other scenarios. There's gotta be a way to be able to make the concept have its cake and eat it too, but without being ridiculously OP or wildly ineffective.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Not sure if it'll be useful to you at all, but I created a rogue subclass along these lines a few years back. I was never entirely satisfied with it, as I feel it's overly complex, but maybe there's something in there you'll be able to reuse.


Spell breakers are a rare breed of rogue who study an esoteric school of meta-magic usually reserved for sages and scholars, known as Contramancy. It’s study is generally ignored by devoted students of magic because in lieu of increasing one’s innate potential for wielding magic, it focuses on stealing power from existing sources of magic by stifling the student’s natural ability, creating a void which can then draw in energy from external sources. As such, spell breakers have no innate wellspring of magic to draw upon, instead leeching magic from spells cast by true spell wielders.

The reasons that draw a rogue to the study of Contramancy are many and varied. Some spell breakers specialize in the assassination of spellcasters, whether for a cause or simply the highest bidder. Others are specialized burglars, preying on the vast wealth horded by mages and protected by dangerous wards that would disintegrate any ordinary thief. While yet others are drawn to such studies simply because they were incapacitated by magic and vowed to never feel so helpless again.

Spell Break
Starting at 3rd level, you can siphon energy from spells cast against you in order to weaken them. When you are missed by or successfully save against a spell you may use your reaction to absorb the spell.

If it is a single target spell, you negate it and gain spell points equal to the modified level it was cast at on the Spell Point Cost table. For example, if you absorb a Chromatic Orb spell cast using a 2nd-level spell slot, you gain 3 spell points.

If it is a multi-target spell (even if you’re the only one in it), you negate its immediate effects with respect to yourself only. The spell comes into being, but the caster has disadvantage to hit other targets with the spell (if the spell requires an attack roll), or other targets have advantage on their saving throw against the spell (if the spell requires a saving throw). You gain spell points equal to the modified level of the spell. Later saving throws or attack rolls against this spell are made normally unless you use Spell Break again.

For example, if you absorb a Burning Hands spell cast using a 2nd-level spell slot, you gain 2 spell points. If Burning Hands was cast using a 4th-level spell slot, you would gain 4 spell points.

As another example, if you successfully use Spell Break on a Wall of Fire that is created with you inside it, you take no immediate damage and other creatures that are in it when it is cast gain advantage on their saving throw, but you will take damage if you end your turn inside it.

Spellcasting
When you reach 3rd level, you gain the ability to cast spells.

Cantrips
You can absorb up to 3 cantrips using your Spell Breaker abilities and add them to your Cantrips Known. At 10th level you can add a fourth Known Cantrip by absorbing it. These cantrips can be from any spell list.

Although casting a cantrip doesn’t cost any spell points, you must have at least 1 spell point remaining in order to cast a cantrip.

Spell Points
The Spell Breaker Spellcasting table shows the maximum spell points you can absorb to cast your spells of 1st level or higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend spell points as per the Spell Point Cost table. You can only gain spell points by absorbing spells (you do not regain spell points by resting).

If you absorb a Cantrip, you do not gain any spell points unless you have no more spell points remaining, in which case you gain 1 spell point.

If you absorb more spell points than your maximum allows, you only gain up to your maximum. Additionally, you take 1d6 damage for each spell point you weren’t able to absorb. This damage cannot be resisted or negated, and you cannot choose to not absorb spell points.

You can only gain spell points from an individual casting of a spell once. For example, if you successfully use Spell Break against a Wall of Fire, you gain no spell points from later using Hex Break on that same Wall of Fire. As another example, if you use Hex Break against multiple targets of the same ongoing spell (Hold Person using a 3rd-level or higher spell slot), you only gain spell points the first time you successfully use Hex Break on one of those targets.

Spells Known of 1st-Level or Higher
At 3rd level, you can know up to three 1st-level spells by absorbing them.

The Spells Known column of the Spell Breaker Spellcasting table shows when you know more spells. These spells can be from any spell list. When you absorb a spell, you can add it to your known spells provided that the unmodified level of the spell is one that you are capable of casting, as shown in the Spell Breaker Spellcasting table in the Max Spell Level column. For example, if you successfully use your Spell Break ability on a Fireball cast using a 5th-level spell slot, you can add Fireball to your spells known if your are at least a 13th level Spell Breaker, because the unmodified spell level of Fireball is 3rd-level.

If you already know a number of spells equal to your current maximum when you absorb a spell, you may choose to replace a known spell with the absorbed spell, provided you meet the above requirements. This applies to Cantrips as well.

Additionally, you may absorb spells from spell scrolls, provided you meet the above requirements. This destroys the scroll but allows you to gain the spell as a known spell, and grants your spell points based on the level of the spell as per the Spell Point Cost table. For example, if you find a scroll of Cure Wounds (cast as a 1st-level spell), you can absorb the spell on it to add Cure Wounds to your known spells and gain 2 spell points.

Spellcasting Ability
Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for your Spell Breaker spells.

Spell Breaker Spellcasting

Rogue Level	Cantrips Known	Spells Known	Max Spell Points	Max Spell Level
3	3	3	4	1
4	3	4	6	1
5	3	4	6	1
6	3	4	6	1
7	3	5	14	2
8	3	6	14	2
9	3	6	14	2
10	4	7	17	2
11	4	8	17	2
12	4	8	17	2
13	4	9	27	3
14	4	10	27	3
15	4	10	27	3
16	4	11	32	3
17	4	11	32	3
18	4	11	32	3
19	4	12	38	4
20	4	13	38	4

Spell Point Cost

Spell Level	Spell Point Cost
Cantrip	0
1st	2
2nd	3
3rd	5
4th	6
5th	7
6th	9
7th	10
8th	11
9th	13

Hex Break
At 9th level, as an action, you can attempt to absorb an ongoing spell effect by touching the creature, object or area affected. If the creature doesn’t want to be touched, this requires a melee spell attack.

If you touch the target, make a spellcasting ability check against a DC equal to 10 + the spell’s modified level. If the spell cannot be dispelled with Dispel Magic (such as a Wall of Force), make this check with disadvantage. If you succeed you negate the spell on that target, and absorb it gaining a number of spell points equal to the spell’s modified level. If you fail, you take 1d6 damage per modified level of the spell (failing to Hex Break a Cantrip deals 1 point of damage) and this damage cannot be resisted or negated.

Contra-Mage
At 13th level, you can lessen the effects of spells against you even when you don’t use Spell Break. When you are subjected to a spell effect that allows you to make a save for half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Additionally, if a spell deals damage to you on a miss, you take no damage on a miss.

Spell Steal
At 17th level, you can pluck the secrets of magic directly from the minds of spellcasters.

Make a melee spell attack, as an action, in order to touch the target. If you succeed, you immediately gain knowledge of what spells your target knows and has prepared, and you may select one of these and add it to your known spells (this is in addition to your maximum known spells). You can only have one extra spell known from Spell Steal. If you Spell Steal again, it replaces the spell you previously gained from Spell Steal.

If you choose, you may force the target to make a saving throw with its spellcasting ability modifier against your spell save DC. If it fails, the target loses a spell slot with a level equal to the unmodified spell level of the spell you selected, or the next higher spell slot if it has no more spell slots of that level available, or the next lower slot if it has no higher spell slots available. You gain spell points equal to the Spell Point Cost for a spell of level equal to that spell slot.

You may steal a spell of a level higher than you could normally cast. Casting it, however, is dangerous and taxing. When you cast such a spell, you must pay the spell point cost for a spell of its level and must cast it at its unmodified level. Additionally, after casting the spell you immediately take 2d6 damage for each level the spell is above the highest level spell you can cast, and this damage cannot be resisted or negated. Furthermore, if the spell is 6th level or higher, you can only cast it once per long rest. Finally, you cannot hold onto such a spell for long; it is removed from your known spells after a long rest. For example, if a 17th level Spell Breaker steals Meteor Swarm, he must pay 13 spell points to cast it and takes 12d6 damage after casting it ((9th level spell – 3rd level highest castable spell) * 2d6).

Once you use the Spell Steal feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a long rest.

Multiclassing
Spell Breaker Spellcasting follows the Pact Magic rules for multiclassing. Levels of Spell Breaker are not added for purposes of determining a multiclass spellcaster’s spell slots per level.

 

[ZeshinX]

Not sure if it'll be useful to you at all, but I created a rogue subclass along these lines a few years back. I was never entirely satisfied with it, as I feel it's overly complex, but maybe there's something in there you'll be able to reuse.

snip

Really cool, though I agree it seems overly complex (reminds me a lot of other spellfilcher-styled options from late 3.x). My ideas certainly wish to conform to the simplicity approach 5e very much seems to favour (options, but not potentially overwhelming or complex ones).

My thoughts on the concept, while certainly carrying a martial bent to it, would like to see the concept available for more than a single class. Not necessarily a kit/PrC for all in 5e, but variations on the theme that dovetail with their parent class (not every class, though it could work for most, even the full caster classes). Tricky, but it feels like there's definitely space to make it work....even flesh out the concept to an entire faction. Certainly would fit with at least some campaign settings.

 

[jsaving]

Give them advantage on saves against magic at some point, the ability to create a sort of shield around themselves that absorbs some part of any magic that tries to touch them, etc. let them heal themselves with the consumed energy, maybe, but also gain half the benefit from external healing? Too fiddly?

I can understand why a non-caster would love being able to neutralize power sources to which she lacks access. What I don't see is why that is a viable or desirable class to create. If magic is prevalent throughout the campaign, then the class is very likely to be OP and will also make other peoples' magic-using characters less fun to play, harming the overall dynamic around the gaming table. But if magic is not prevalent, then you'll end up in a ranger-favored-enemy type situation where the character is only occasionally useful while mostly being underpowered.

I wonder if you might instead consider a class along the likes of GW's mesmer which gains power-ups from interrupting actions. Or if you do specifically want a character that targets magic-users you could consider a variant abjurer, who is so good at dispelling effects that she can actually redirect the spell's energy to recharge her spell slots or even magically blast her foes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I can understand why a non-caster would love being able to neutralize power sources to which she lacks access. What I don't see is why that is a viable or desirable class to create. If magic is prevalent throughout the campaign, then the class is very likely to be OP and will also make other peoples' magic-using characters less fun to play, harming the overall dynamic around the gaming table. But if magic is not prevalent, then you'll end up in a ranger-favored-enemy type situation where the character is only occasionally useful while mostly being underpowered.

I mean just, no, on every level?

Why is it impossible, in this place in particular, to make a thread about an idea, without getting posts that are not only unhelpful, but go all the way to "your idea is bad and you shouldn't do it"?

Like, do you think you'll actually convince me that my premise is bad?

No.

There is nothing problematic about a character who can consume magic. How on Earth would a spell eater make other characters that do magic less fun to play? Do you have a lot of PvP in your games?
As for the rest, once you get out of pretty low levels, magical enemies are pretty common, but even if they weren't there is still an entire class there, and no reason that eating magic needs to be the only thing the subclass does. It couldn't be OP even if every enemy has magic unless it can just counter everything, all the time, at-will, or something.

hell, if it's main cool things was basically absorb elements as a class feature, that's still once per round at most.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Sounds like Spellfire.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Really cool, though I agree it seems overly complex (reminds me a lot of other spellfilcher-styled options from late 3.x). My ideas certainly wish to conform to the simplicity approach 5e very much seems to favour (options, but not potentially overwhelming or complex ones).

My thoughts on the concept, while certainly carrying a martial bent to it, would like to see the concept available for more than a single class. Not necessarily a kit/PrC for all in 5e, but variations on the theme that dovetail with their parent class (not every class, though it could work for most, even the full caster classes). Tricky, but it feels like there's definitely space to make it work....even flesh out the concept to an entire faction. Certainly would fit with at least some campaign settings.

Maybe a supernatural gift, and at least one more feat related to negating magic and/or fighting enemies that use magic?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

My favorite thing would be to have the Warlock be the ultimate spell thief, like in Shadow of the Demon lord.

Like, the warlock does not have known spells (maybe only their patron specific spells), only cantrips and maybe at-will spells granted by their invocations, plus their short rest slots, but...they can use the arcane trickster's spell thievery x/per day, then use their slot to fuel those stolen spells.

At higher level, they would have counterspell, dispel and absord element and when you would steal a spell or dispel/counter a spell, you would gain THP or deal extra damage. Something like the War mage features.

At even higher level, you could give them the ''reflect spells'' feature of the crag cat or flail snail.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sounds like Spellfire.

it does? Maybe I'm not remembering spellfire well? Isn't it mainly a type of magic?