Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Monstrous Arthropods for Fifth Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 9252177" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>Okay, I've decided to upgrade the Legs capture size to match the size of the Giant Dragonfly since real life dragonflies will hunt flying insect that are almost as big as them.</p><p></p><p>For proof, see the paper "Do predatory adult odonates estimate their adult prey odonates’ body size and dispersal ability to proceed with a successful attack" by Tharaka Sudesh Priyadarshana from Volume 13 of <a href="https://threatenedtaxa.org/index.php/JoTT/article/view/7198" target="_blank"><em>Threatened Taxa</em></a> (2021).</p><p></p><p>I found the paper more easy to read on <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283336966_Do_Predatory_Adult_Odonates_Estimate_their_Adult_Prey_Odonates%27_Body_Size_and_Dispersal_Ability_to_Proceed_with_a_Successful_Attack" target="_blank">Research Gate</a> [<strong><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tharaka-Priyadarshana/publication/283336966_Do_Predatory_Adult_Odonates_Estimate_their_Adult_Prey_Odonates'_Body_Size_and_Dispersal_Ability_to_Proceed_with_a_Successful_Attack/links/60db190a92851ca944954d29/Do-Predatory-Adult-Odonates-Estimate-their-Adult-Prey-Odonates-Body-Size-and-Dispersal-Ability-to-Proceed-with-a-Successful-Attack.pdf" target="_blank">PDF</a></strong>].</p><p></p><p>Note the ratio between the mean lengths of an odonate and the smaller odonates they hunt:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>Dragonfly vs Dragonfly</th><th>Dragonfly vs Damselfly</th><th>Damselfly vs Damselfly</th></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">46.000mm Dragonfly</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">45.749mm Dragonfly</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">32.984mm Damselfly</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">39.992mm Dragonfly</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">32.808mm Damselfly</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">28.387mm Damselfly</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">0.8694 length ratio</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.7171 size ratio</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">0.8606 size ratio</p> </td></tr></table><p><table style='width: 100%'></table><p><br /> So an odonate is willing and able to attack another odonate about 85% of its body length, so I'm allowing the Giant Dragonfly to catch Medium opponents with its Legs, although its Multiattack is still limited to Small targets.<br /> <br /> Maybe I should make the Giant Damselfly a Small beast with Hit Points 14 (4d6) and keep it 6 feet long?<br /> <br /> The carrying capacity will be an important factor for our giant odonates.<br /> <br /> With our current figures, their carrying capacities are:<br /> <br /> <table style='width: 100%'><tr><th>Small <a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257" target="_blank">Giant Damselfly</a></th><th><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257" target="_blank">Giant Damselfly</a></th><th><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249220" target="_blank">Giant Dragonfly</a></th><th><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249560" target="_blank">Imperial Dragonfly</a></th><th><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249563" target="_blank">Tropical Damselfly</a></th></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">STR 10</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">STR 10</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">STR 15</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">STR 18</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">STR 20</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: center">carry 75 lbs.</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">carry 150 lbs.</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">carry 225 lbs.</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">carry 540 lbs.</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">carry 1,200 lbs.</p> </td></tr></table> <br /> Let's make up some guesstimates for length/wingspan and weight:<br /> <br /> <table style='width: 100%'><tr><th><p style="text-align: left">Size</p> </th><th>Damselfly</th><th>Dragonfly</th></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left">Huge</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">30/50 ft. 4,500 lb?</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">20/35 ft. 4,500 lb?</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left">Large</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">18/30 ft. 1,000 lb?</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">12/20 ft. 1,000 lb?</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left">Medium</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">10/18 ft. 175 lb?</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">8/12 ft. 250 lb?</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left">Small</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">6/10 ft. 40 lb?</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">4½/7 ft. 50 lb?</p> </td></tr></table><p><table style='width: 100%'></table><p><br /> At those weights, each size of monstrous Odonatid can catch any smaller Odonatid in the air (as their carrying capacities are higher than the smaller size's estimated body weights), a Giant Dragonfly can catch a Giant Damselfly (as it's light enough to carry) but not another Giant Dragonfly (which is a bit too heavy), but if we extrapolate to a Small Giant Damselfly and Small Giant Dragonfly, they're both strong enough to prey on each other.<br /> <br /> Hmm, I think I'd rather fiddle the figures and make the Giant Damselfly around 6 feet long and a bit heavier than the above. Real life tropical giant damselflies are skinnier than the smaller ones, so I feel justified in fiddling the numbers.<br /> <br /> Currently thinking of going for:<br /> <br /> <strong><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257" target="_blank">Giant Damselfly</a></strong> (Small beast) 6 foot long, 10 foot wingspan, weight 50 pounds.<br /> <strong><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249220" target="_blank">Giant Dragonfly</a></strong> (Medium beast) 8 foot long, 12 foot wingspan, weight 250 pounds.<br /> <strong><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249560" target="_blank">Giant Emperor Dragonfly</a></strong> (Large beast) 12 foot long, 20 foot wingspan, weight 1,000 pounds.<br /> <strong><a href="https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249563" target="_blank">Giant Tropical Damselfly</a></strong> (Huge beast) 30 foot long, 50 foot wingspan, weight 5,000 pounds.</p></p></p></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 9252177, member: 57383"] Okay, I've decided to upgrade the Legs capture size to match the size of the Giant Dragonfly since real life dragonflies will hunt flying insect that are almost as big as them. For proof, see the paper "Do predatory adult odonates estimate their adult prey odonates’ body size and dispersal ability to proceed with a successful attack" by Tharaka Sudesh Priyadarshana from Volume 13 of [url='https://threatenedtaxa.org/index.php/JoTT/article/view/7198'][i]Threatened Taxa[/i][/URL] (2021). I found the paper more easy to read on [url='https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283336966_Do_Predatory_Adult_Odonates_Estimate_their_Adult_Prey_Odonates%27_Body_Size_and_Dispersal_Ability_to_Proceed_with_a_Successful_Attack']Research Gate[/url] [[b][url="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tharaka-Priyadarshana/publication/283336966_Do_Predatory_Adult_Odonates_Estimate_their_Adult_Prey_Odonates'_Body_Size_and_Dispersal_Ability_to_Proceed_with_a_Successful_Attack/links/60db190a92851ca944954d29/Do-Predatory-Adult-Odonates-Estimate-their-Adult-Prey-Odonates-Body-Size-and-Dispersal-Ability-to-Proceed-with-a-Successful-Attack.pdf"]PDF[/URL][/b]]. Note the ratio between the mean lengths of an odonate and the smaller odonates they hunt: [TABLE] [TR][TH]Dragonfly vs Dragonfly[/TH][TH]Dragonfly vs Damselfly[/TH][TH]Damselfly vs Damselfly[/TH][/TR] [TR][TD][CENTER]46.000mm Dragonfly[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]45.749mm Dragonfly[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]32.984mm Damselfly[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][CENTER]39.992mm Dragonfly[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]32.808mm Damselfly[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]28.387mm Damselfly[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][CENTER]0.8694 length ratio[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]0.7171 size ratio[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]0.8606 size ratio[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TABLE] So an odonate is willing and able to attack another odonate about 85% of its body length, so I'm allowing the Giant Dragonfly to catch Medium opponents with its Legs, although its Multiattack is still limited to Small targets. Maybe I should make the Giant Damselfly a Small beast with Hit Points 14 (4d6) and keep it 6 feet long? The carrying capacity will be an important factor for our giant odonates. With our current figures, their carrying capacities are: [TABLE] [TR][TH]Small [URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257']Giant Damselfly[/URL][/TH][TH][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257']Giant Damselfly[/URL][/TH][TH][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249220']Giant Dragonfly[/URL][/TH][TH][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249560']Imperial Dragonfly[/URL][/TH][TH][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249563']Tropical Damselfly[/URL][/TH][/TR] [TR][TD][CENTER]STR 10[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]STR 10[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]STR 15[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]STR 18[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]STR 20[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][CENTER]carry 75 lbs.[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]carry 150 lbs.[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]carry 225 lbs.[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]carry 540 lbs.[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]carry 1,200 lbs.[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [/TABLE] Let's make up some guesstimates for length/wingspan and weight: [TABLE] [TR][TH][LEFT]Size[/LEFT][/TH][TH]Damselfly[/TH][TH]Dragonfly[/TH][/TR] [TR][TD][LEFT]Huge[/LEFT][/TD][TD][CENTER]30/50 ft. 4,500 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]20/35 ft. 4,500 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][LEFT]Large[/LEFT][/TD][TD][CENTER]18/30 ft. 1,000 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]12/20 ft. 1,000 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][LEFT]Medium[/LEFT][/TD][TD][CENTER]10/18 ft. 175 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]8/12 ft. 250 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TR][TD][LEFT]Small[/LEFT][/TD][TD][CENTER]6/10 ft. 40 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][TD][CENTER]4½/7 ft. 50 lb?[/CENTER][/TD][/TR] [TABLE] At those weights, each size of monstrous Odonatid can catch any smaller Odonatid in the air (as their carrying capacities are higher than the smaller size's estimated body weights), a Giant Dragonfly can catch a Giant Damselfly (as it's light enough to carry) but not another Giant Dragonfly (which is a bit too heavy), but if we extrapolate to a Small Giant Damselfly and Small Giant Dragonfly, they're both strong enough to prey on each other. Hmm, I think I'd rather fiddle the figures and make the Giant Damselfly around 6 feet long and a bit heavier than the above. Real life tropical giant damselflies are skinnier than the smaller ones, so I feel justified in fiddling the numbers. Currently thinking of going for: [B][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249257']Giant Damselfly[/URL][/B] (Small beast) 6 foot long, 10 foot wingspan, weight 50 pounds. [B][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249220']Giant Dragonfly[/URL][/B] (Medium beast) 8 foot long, 12 foot wingspan, weight 250 pounds. [B][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249560']Giant Emperor Dragonfly[/URL][/B] (Large beast) 12 foot long, 20 foot wingspan, weight 1,000 pounds. [B][URL='https://www.enworld.org/posts/9249563']Giant Tropical Damselfly[/URL][/B] (Huge beast) 30 foot long, 50 foot wingspan, weight 5,000 pounds.[/TABLE][/TABLE][/TABLE][/TABLE] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Monstrous Arthropods for Fifth Edition
Top