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5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8481743" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>Hmm, I find AC 18 and 4d10 HD is acceptable. I was thinking we'd aim for similar HP to the Nandie-Boss, who has 27 hp. 4d10 is five short of that at 22 hp, but that is "within the ballpark" as far as I'm concerned.</p><p></p><p>Would consider giving them a tweak up on their Constitution to, say, <strong>CON</strong> 13 (+1).</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, how about going back to the first draft's 3d10 and giving them an impressive Constitution bonus, like <strong>CON</strong> 16 (+3) for <strong>Hit Points</strong> 25 (3d10+9)?</p><p></p><p>The flavour suggests these things should be pretty resilient!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well in the original adventure they seem to play the role of "monsters to avoid waking up" since they are so tough.</p><p></p><p>I'm wondering if we should aim for <strong>Challenge</strong> 2 with these critters. They are nastier than a plain old Nandie Boss. Way better AC and a tad more damage, although it's that ridiculous AC that's their "schtick" so we certainly want to make them tough nuts to crack.</p><p></p><p>A <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/monsters-foes/monsters-by-type/elementals/gargoyle/" target="_blank"><strong>Gargoyle</strong></a></strong> seems a good model for them. They've got the same "stony thing that's hard to kill due to special defenses" approach.</p><p></p><p>Upon reflection, they have three attacks so the total damage is a respectable 14.5 so that figure is fine. You might want to consider changing it to "two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws" since claw/claw/bite routines appear less fashionable in 5E.</p><p></p><p>Shouldn't the attacks be a bit more accurate than +3 to hit though, maybe +4 (like its Dex), or possibly higher?</p><p></p><p>Also, the Strength could be a bit higher, at least enough to account for its +1 damage bonus - say <strong>STR</strong> 13 (+1).</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiattack.</strong> The shadow dancer makes three attacks: one bite attack and two claw attacks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bite.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Claw.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 4 (1d6 + 1) slashing damage.</li> </ul><p>If you go for the "two attack" Multiattack and want to keep the same 14.5 average damage, I'd suggest tweaking the damage dice and <em>maybe</em> increasing the muscle to Strength 15.</p><p></p><p><strong>STR 13 </strong>(+1)<strong> version:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiattack.</strong> The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bite.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Claws.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 8 (2d6 + 1) slashing damage.</li> </ul><p><strong>STR 15 </strong>(+2)<strong> version:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiattack.</strong> The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bite.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Claws.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 7 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage.</li> </ul><p>Although I'd rather just give it the same bonus damage with each attack for a point less average damage:</p><p></p><p><strong>STR 13 </strong>(+1)<strong> uniform version:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiattack.</strong> The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bite.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Claws.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 8 (2d6 + 1) slashing damage.</li> </ul><p><strong>STR 15 </strong>(+2)<strong> version:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Multiattack.</strong> The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Bite.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Claws.</strong> <em>Melee Weapon Attack</em>: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit</em>: 7 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage.</li> </ul><p>Do any of those appeal to you?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For a start, I'd drop the elemental damage Resistances, since the original monster made no mention of them being immune to normal fire (flaming oil and the like).</p><p></p><p>Better keep the Magic Resistance as "they are immune to all magical attacks other than magic weapons".</p><p></p><p>A <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/monsters-foes/monsters-by-type/elementals/gargoyle/" target="_blank">Gargoyle</a></strong> has:</p><p></p><p><strong>Damage Resistances</strong> bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine</p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> exhaustion, petrified, poisoned</p><p></p><p>For a comparable low-level Demon, consider the <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/quasit/" target="_blank">Quasit</a></strong> which is Challenge 1:</p><p></p><p><strong>Damage Resistances</strong> cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks</p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> poisoned</p><p></p><p>They don't <em>have</em> to be loaded with the construct Condition Immunities, since (a) there's no mention of that in the original, and (b) they "come alive" in moonlight, implying they might be living creatures, and (c) that's partially covered by their Magic Resistance, but I guess there's no harm keeping some or most of them.</p><p></p><p>What do some low-ranked Construct have?</p><p></p><p>An <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/iron-cobra/" target="_blank">Iron Cobra</a></strong> is Challenge 1 and has:</p><p></p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison, psychic; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned</p><p></p><p>Which is pretty impressive! The Challenge 7 <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/shield-guardian/" target="_blank">Shield Guardian</a></strong> has a weaker selection:</p><p></p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned</p><p></p><p>For our boy, how about a slightly expanded version of the Gargoyle?:</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 18px"><strong>Shadow Dancer</strong></span></p><p><strong>Damage Resistances</strong> bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine</p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison, psychic</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> exhaustion, petrified, poisoned</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's an idea, we could give them a lower AC but add a special ability that gives attackers disadvantage on weapon attacks. That'd make them hard to hit, but not nigh-untouchable like AC 25 would.</p><p></p><p>For example:</p><p></p><p><strong>Armor Class</strong> 15 (natural armor)</p><p></p><p><strong>Weapon Resistance</strong>. Any creature attacking the shadow dancer with a weapon has disadvantage on the to hit roll.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8481743, member: 57383"] Hmm, I find AC 18 and 4d10 HD is acceptable. I was thinking we'd aim for similar HP to the Nandie-Boss, who has 27 hp. 4d10 is five short of that at 22 hp, but that is "within the ballpark" as far as I'm concerned. Would consider giving them a tweak up on their Constitution to, say, [B]CON[/B] 13 (+1). Alternatively, how about going back to the first draft's 3d10 and giving them an impressive Constitution bonus, like [B]CON[/B] 16 (+3) for [B]Hit Points[/B] 25 (3d10+9)? The flavour suggests these things should be pretty resilient! Well in the original adventure they seem to play the role of "monsters to avoid waking up" since they are so tough. I'm wondering if we should aim for [B]Challenge[/B] 2 with these critters. They are nastier than a plain old Nandie Boss. Way better AC and a tad more damage, although it's that ridiculous AC that's their "schtick" so we certainly want to make them tough nuts to crack. A [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/monsters-foes/monsters-by-type/elementals/gargoyle/'][B]Gargoyle[/B][/URL][/B] seems a good model for them. They've got the same "stony thing that's hard to kill due to special defenses" approach. Upon reflection, they have three attacks so the total damage is a respectable 14.5 so that figure is fine. You might want to consider changing it to "two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws" since claw/claw/bite routines appear less fashionable in 5E. Shouldn't the attacks be a bit more accurate than +3 to hit though, maybe +4 (like its Dex), or possibly higher? Also, the Strength could be a bit higher, at least enough to account for its +1 damage bonus - say [B]STR[/B] 13 (+1). [LIST] [*][B]Multiattack.[/B] The shadow dancer makes three attacks: one bite attack and two claw attacks. [*][B]Bite.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage. [*][B]Claw.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 4 (1d6 + 1) slashing damage. [/LIST] If you go for the "two attack" Multiattack and want to keep the same 14.5 average damage, I'd suggest tweaking the damage dice and [I]maybe[/I] increasing the muscle to Strength 15. [B]STR 13 [/B](+1)[B] version:[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Multiattack.[/B] The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws. [*][B]Bite.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage. [*][B]Claws.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 8 (2d6 + 1) slashing damage. [/LIST] [B]STR 15 [/B](+2)[B] version:[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Multiattack.[/B] The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws. [*][B]Bite.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 7 (1d8 + 3) piercing damage. [*][B]Claws.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 7 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage. [/LIST] Although I'd rather just give it the same bonus damage with each attack for a point less average damage: [B]STR 13 [/B](+1)[B] uniform version:[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Multiattack.[/B] The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws. [*][B]Bite.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 5 (1d8 + 1) piercing damage. [*][B]Claws.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 8 (2d6 + 1) slashing damage. [/LIST] [B]STR 15 [/B](+2)[B] version:[/B] [LIST] [*][B]Multiattack.[/B] The shadow dancer makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws. [*][B]Bite.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage. [*][B]Claws.[/B] [I]Melee Weapon Attack[/I]: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit[/I]: 7 (2d4 + 2) slashing damage. [/LIST] Do any of those appeal to you? For a start, I'd drop the elemental damage Resistances, since the original monster made no mention of them being immune to normal fire (flaming oil and the like). Better keep the Magic Resistance as "they are immune to all magical attacks other than magic weapons". A [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/monsters-foes/monsters-by-type/elementals/gargoyle/']Gargoyle[/URL][/B] has: [B]Damage Resistances[/B] bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison [B]Condition Immunities[/B] exhaustion, petrified, poisoned For a comparable low-level Demon, consider the [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/quasit/']Quasit[/URL][/B] which is Challenge 1: [B]Damage Resistances[/B] cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison [B]Condition Immunities[/B] poisoned They don't [I]have[/I] to be loaded with the construct Condition Immunities, since (a) there's no mention of that in the original, and (b) they "come alive" in moonlight, implying they might be living creatures, and (c) that's partially covered by their Magic Resistance, but I guess there's no harm keeping some or most of them. What do some low-ranked Construct have? An [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/iron-cobra/']Iron Cobra[/URL][/B] is Challenge 1 and has: [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison, psychic; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine [B]Condition Immunities[/B] charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned Which is pretty impressive! The Challenge 7 [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/shield-guardian/']Shield Guardian[/URL][/B] has a weaker selection: [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison [B]Condition Immunities[/B] charmed, exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned For our boy, how about a slightly expanded version of the Gargoyle?: [SIZE=5][B]Shadow Dancer[/B][/SIZE] [B]Damage Resistances[/B] bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren't adamantine [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison, psychic [B]Condition Immunities[/B] exhaustion, petrified, poisoned Here's an idea, we could give them a lower AC but add a special ability that gives attackers disadvantage on weapon attacks. That'd make them hard to hit, but not nigh-untouchable like AC 25 would. For example: [B]Armor Class[/B] 15 (natural armor) [B]Weapon Resistance[/B]. Any creature attacking the shadow dancer with a weapon has disadvantage on the to hit roll. [/QUOTE]
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