Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8480857" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p><img src="https://www.enworld.org/attachments/shadowdancer-png.148132/" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Yes, AC 25 is too high for a 5E conversion. For comparison, the original's AC –5 is close to a 1E Type III Demon's AC –4. That's the Glabrezu Demon in latter editions. What Armour Class do those have in 5E again…</p><p></p><p>Oh, a 5E Glabrezu is only AC 17! That suggests even AC 20 is too high.</p><p></p><p>Let's compare the "standard six" demons:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><th><p style="text-align: left">Demon</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: center">1E AD&D</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: center">2E AD&D</p> </th><th><p style="text-align: center">5E D&D</p> </th></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/vrock/" target="_blank">Type I Vrock</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 0</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –5</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 15</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/hezrou/" target="_blank">Type II Hezrou</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –2</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –6</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 16</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/glabrezu/" target="_blank">Type III Glabrezu</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –4</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –7</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 17</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/demon-nalfeshnee/" target="_blank">Type IV Nalfeshnee</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –1</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –8</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 18</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/marilith/" target="_blank">Type V Marilith</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –7/–5</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –9</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 18</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/balor/" target="_blank">Type VI Balor</a></strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –2</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –8</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC 19</p> </td></tr><tr><td><p style="text-align: left"><strong>Shadow Dancer</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –5</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC –</p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center">AC ?</p> </td></tr></table><p></p><p>An AC of 20 is higher than a Balor in 5E!</p><p></p><p>So maybe AC 18 for the Dancers? The only 1E standard demon with AC –5 is the Marilith on her "soft parts", and they're AC 18 in 5E.</p><p></p><p>Or possibly as low as AC 15 since that's the AC of a Vrock in 5E, which is presumably a more powerful rank of demon than a Dancer? Vrocks do have AC –5 in 2E AD&D, for what that's worth.</p><p></p><p>As for the rest of it, I think you might have gone overboard with the resistances and immunities!</p><p></p><p>Apart from that, they look a bit weak in the combat output area. The original had a respectable 1d6/1d6/1d8 attack routine for 11.5 average damage, which is not that much less than the 14 average a 1E Hezrou's gets from its 1d3/1d3/4d4 attack routine.</p><p></p><p>Still, they do more damage than a 1E Dretch's 8.5 average (1d4/1d4/1d4+1), so maybe aim somewhere between the two? Although a <strong><a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/dretch/" target="_blank">Dretch</a></strong> is pretty weak in 5E, so might not be a useful comparison.</p><p></p><p>Four Hit Dice also seems a little low, but then the original monster had rather low HD for its ludicrous AC so that seems more acceptable.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, there's things I have to be doing so that'll have to do for now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8480857, member: 57383"] [IMG]https://www.enworld.org/attachments/shadowdancer-png.148132/[/IMG] Yes, AC 25 is too high for a 5E conversion. For comparison, the original's AC –5 is close to a 1E Type III Demon's AC –4. That's the Glabrezu Demon in latter editions. What Armour Class do those have in 5E again… Oh, a 5E Glabrezu is only AC 17! That suggests even AC 20 is too high. Let's compare the "standard six" demons: [TABLE] [TR] [TH][LEFT]Demon[/LEFT][/TH] [TH][CENTER]1E AD&D[/CENTER][/TH] [TH][CENTER]2E AD&D[/CENTER][/TH] [TH][CENTER]5E D&D[/CENTER][/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/vrock/']Type I Vrock[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 0[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –5[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 15[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/hezrou/']Type II Hezrou[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –2[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –6[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 16[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/glabrezu/']Type III Glabrezu[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –4[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –7[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 17[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/demon-nalfeshnee/']Type IV Nalfeshnee[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –1[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –8[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 18[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/marilith/']Type V Marilith[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –7/–5[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –9[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 18[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/balor/']Type VI Balor[/URL][/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –2[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –8[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC 19[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][LEFT][B]Shadow Dancer[/B][/LEFT][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –5[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC –[/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER]AC ?[/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] An AC of 20 is higher than a Balor in 5E! So maybe AC 18 for the Dancers? The only 1E standard demon with AC –5 is the Marilith on her "soft parts", and they're AC 18 in 5E. Or possibly as low as AC 15 since that's the AC of a Vrock in 5E, which is presumably a more powerful rank of demon than a Dancer? Vrocks do have AC –5 in 2E AD&D, for what that's worth. As for the rest of it, I think you might have gone overboard with the resistances and immunities! Apart from that, they look a bit weak in the combat output area. The original had a respectable 1d6/1d6/1d8 attack routine for 11.5 average damage, which is not that much less than the 14 average a 1E Hezrou's gets from its 1d3/1d3/4d4 attack routine. Still, they do more damage than a 1E Dretch's 8.5 average (1d4/1d4/1d4+1), so maybe aim somewhere between the two? Although a [B][URL='https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/dretch/']Dretch[/URL][/B] is pretty weak in 5E, so might not be a useful comparison. Four Hit Dice also seems a little low, but then the original monster had rather low HD for its ludicrous AC so that seems more acceptable. Anyhow, there's things I have to be doing so that'll have to do for now. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Hosted Forums
Creature Catalog Forums
General Monster Talk
5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
Top