D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Uncanny Dodge = Immune to Feints?

[Selganor]

To quote the SRD 3.5:

At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

(Same for Rogue Level 4)

Does that mean that if you got Uncanny Dodge you are immune to a Feint (and therefore immune to following Sneak Attacks) as this removes your Dex-Bonus but doesn't imobilize him (which is pointed out as the only exception to Uncanny Dodge?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Being flatfooted and being struck by an invisble attack is the only circumstances where Uncanny Dodge works.

 

[Corinth]

No, read that again. Nothing short of immobilization can deny the character his Dexterity bonus; this is what Uncanny Dodge does.

 

[AGGEMAM]

No, read that again. Nothing short of immobilization can deny the character his Dexterity bonus; this is what Uncanny Dodge does.

Nope. You're wrong, otherwise there would be no need for a Improved version.

 

[Number47]

Why not? The lesser version doesn't protect you from flanking (which has nothing at all to do with dex), the greater does. Don't have my books at work, can anyone else give some actual text quotes?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Here is the full text.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

As you can see there are two conditions.

1) She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed.

2) She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is struck by an invisible attacker.

It does not protect from loosing your dex bonus (if any) against eg outside attackers when grappling or climbing.

 

[The Souljourner]

Ahh, the old Feinting against Uncanny Dodge discussion. I'm surprised they didn't clear that up in 3.5.

There's no clear answer in the rules, evidenced by the fact that this discussion went on for ages in 3.0 and is cropping up again. It's a judgement call on the part of the DM.

Personally, I'd say that uncanny dodge works against feints just as it works against being flat footed. A blind, deaf rogue can be in bed, half asleep, day dreaming about last night's romp in the governor's daughter's bed, and if an incorporeal attacker makes a swing at him, he still gets his dex bonus. Now you're telling me that a rogue who is neither deaf nor blind fighting a visible attacker can get denied his dex bonus because his attacked feints to the right first? That makes no sense.

It's rather poorly worded. It gives two definite situations where the rogue doesn't lose her dex bonus, and one definite situation where she does, but doesn't say anything about the multitude of other situations where you can lose your dex bonus.

-The Souljourner

 

[Caliban]

Uncanny dodge only prevents you from losing your dex when flat-footed or facing an invisible opponent.

The immobilization thing is just to clarify that you would still lose your dex against an invisible foe if you are immobilized. (Otherwise some people would try to interpet it so that you lose your dex bonus when immobilized, except when flat-footed or when being attack by an invisible foe, which is silly.)

Check the FAQ. This ability hasn't changed in 3.5.

 

[Artoomis]

As written you retain your Dex Bonus:

Even if... which is basically the same as saying for example when....

The text goes on to state that you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

This text, as written, states that you retain your dex bonus in all circumstances except being immobilized.

This has been clarified to indicate that all conditions that remove your dex bonus do not apply if you have Uncanny Dodge, except for those that actually restrict movement. Thus, feinting would not work against Uncanny Dodge.

From the FAQ:

What about other combat conditions that deny a character
his Dexterity bonus, such as climbing, grappling, and the
like?
The uncanny dodge ability is a function of the senses. It
allows a character to retain his Dexterity bonus when others
cannot because they don’t have sufficient sensory information
to do so, such as when one is surprised or facing an unseen foe.
If the character is actually rendered immobile (or nearly
immobile) by some physical or magical effect, uncanny dodge
doesn’t help. If you’re a barbarian hanging by your fingers and
toes on a rock face, your feral senses don’t improve your
mobility. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus, and you’re
subject to sneak attack. Grappling is a similar situation—if
you’re in another creature’s grasp (or if you’re gasping another
creature), you lose your Dexterity bonus despite any uncanny
dodge ability you might have.
Creatures with the improved grab special attack can retain
their Dexterity bonuses while grappling by taking a –20 penalty
on any grapple checks they make. There’s no reason why a
character couldn’t take that penalty and also retain his
Dexterity bonus while grappling.

 

[the Jester]

As written you retain your Dex Bonus:

Even if... which is basically the same as saying [i[]for example when....[/i]

The text goes on to state that you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

This text, as written, states that you retain your dex bonus in all circumstances except being immobilized.

This has been clarified to indicate that all conditions that remove your dex bonus do not apply if you have Uncanny Dodge, except for those that actually restrict movement. Thus, feinting would not work against Uncanny Dodge.

Hm, I disagree. Your quote from the FAQ doesn't say anything about 'all conditions that remove your dex bonus... except for those that restrict movement.' All it says is that you:

...retain (your) Dexterity bonus when others
cannot because they don’t have sufficient sensory information
to do so, such as when one is surprised or facing an unseen foe.

It then lists some examples of when you don't retain your dex bonus, which all involve a certain level of being immobilized. However, it never says anything about immobilization being required to make you lose your dex bonus when you have uncanny dodge... that's an inference I don't see.

The only conditions that uncanny dodge protects you against are:

...if... caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

There is nothing here that clearly implies that "if" means "for example when." I read it more like "when"... as in, you retain your dex bonus when caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. I can see how one could argue the other side, but I don't agree with it.