D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Cover Rules

[Kirowan]

In 3.0 it was attacks of opportunity. Now, the cover rules baffle me.

I really need help understanding the cover rules. After reading page 150 to 152, this is how I think they work.

If any corner from your square to any corner of the opponent's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or through a square occupied by another creature, then your opponent gains cover.

Now, that seems very clear. But why doesn't the gnoll provide the orc or Redgar with cover from each other in the 2nd diagram on 151? Doesn't an arrow drawn from the lower left corner of Redgar's square to thw lower left corner of the orc's square pass right through the gnoll?

My other question concerns big creatures and cover. The text says that if a creature takes up more than one square, it choses what square to use when determining if another creature has cover against it and a creature attacking it likewise chooses what square to target to determine if this big creature has cover against him. Now, the text only makes mention of melee attack this way. Shouldn't it also apply to missile attacks? If not, how do you deal with big creatures and cover when using missile weapons?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Camarath]

In 3.0 it was attacks of opportunity. Now, the cover rules baffle me.

I really need help understanding the cover rules. After reading page 150 to 152, this is how I think they work.

If any corner from your square to any corner of the opponent's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or through a square occupied by another creature, then your opponent gains cover.

Now, that seems very clear. But why doesn't the gnoll provide the orc or Redgar with cover from each other in the 2nd diagram on 151? Doesn't an arrow drawn from the lower left corner of Redgar's square to thw lower left corner of the orc's square pass right through the gnoll?

The Gnoll is soft cover and AFAICS only "hard" cover (walls, solid objects, that sort of thing) provides cover in melee when you border your targets square.

My other question concerns big creatures and cover. The text says that if a creature takes up more than one square, it choses what square to use when determining if another creature has cover against it and a creature attacking it likewise chooses what square to target to determine if this big creature has cover against him. Now, the text only makes mention of melee attack this way. Shouldn't it also apply to missile attacks? If not, how do you deal with big creatures and cover when using missile weapons?

Thanks,

Nick

It would seems resonable to me to do the same thing for ranged attacks. But the rules only talk about melee cambat. Maybe this is an other oversight.

 

[Kirowan]

Re: Re: [3.5] Cover Rules

The Gnoll is soft cover and AFAICS only "hard" cover (walls, solid objects, that sort of thing) provides cover in melee when you border your targets square.

On page 151 under soft cover, the text says that "creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against melee attacks..."

I agree that the big creatures and cover text not mentioning ranged weapons is most likely an oversight.

Nick

 

[Kirowan]

I've reread the text on page 151 again. Right under the attack roll modifiers table, the text says "when making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall).

I bet the text that accompanies soft cover should say "providing you cover against ranged attacks or reach melee attacks." What do you think?

Nick

 

[Camarath]

I bet the text that accompanies soft cover should either say "providing you cover against ranged attacks or reach melee attacks." What do you think?

Nick

I think thats how they meant it to work but it is not very clear.

 

[Kirowan]

It makes sense that way. I'm going to be running it as such.

Nick

 

[Destan]

So, to make sure I have this correct:

In the second diagram on p. 151, the gnoll does not provide cover to Regdar and/or the orc. Right?

If, however, Redgar and/or the orc were using a melee reach weapon and/or a ranged weapon, then the gnoll would provide cover to each of them. Correct?

D

 

[Camarath]

I think so. But as I have said the rules seem very unclear and to a certain extent you make your own rules here.

 

[drnuncheon]

If any corner from your square to any corner of the opponent's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or through a square occupied by another creature, then your opponent gains cover.

That rule is for ranged attacks or reach weapons only. If you look directly below it you'll see the rules for adjacent melee cover, which only include walls.

My other question concerns big creatures and cover. The text says that if a creature takes up more than one square, it choses what square to use when determining if another creature has cover against it and a creature attacking it likewise chooses what square to target to determine if this big creature has cover against him. Now, the text only makes mention of melee attack this way. Shouldn't it also apply to missile attacks? If not, how do you deal with big creatures and cover when using missile weapons?

Well, if the text doesn't apply to missile weapons, then presumably you can pick any of the creature's four corner points (just as you could on any other target) - which will generally have much the same effect.

But yeah, it should probably apply to missile attacks as well.

J

 

[Kirowan]

Re: Re: [3.5] Cover Rules

That rule is for ranged attacks or reach weapons only. If you look directly below it you'll see the rules for adjacent melee cover, which only include walls.

I noticed that, but the text for soft cover on the same page mentions melee attacks. That confused me.

Well, if the text doesn't apply to missile weapons, then presumably you can pick any of the creature's four corner points (just as you could on any other target) - which will generally have much the same effect.

But yeah, it should probably apply to missile attacks as well.

I'm just going to apply the rule to missile attacks in the same way. I see no need to do it two different ways.

Nick