D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 City Building

[anest1s]

I was wondering, do you have any good advice on city building?
I think DMG has many holes...

For example, ok you roll for power center, you roll for wizards, etc...then how you know how many wizards are inside the Wizards Guild, and how many of them secretly work for the Thieves Guild?

Or except the obvious power centers, how other existing classes blend in the city?

I found some helpful ideas here and there, but nothing complete and independent by itself...for example in Races of Destiny there is a good guide. But still it isn't complete.

How do you build your towns/cities? What steps you follow? Do you suggest any books which would help? (or info online)

Thanks in advance...

 

[Animal]

from the top of my head - Cityscape?

 

[DeadDM]

There's a web enhancement for 3.5 DMG called "Building a city". It's on the wizards.com website. You can google it.

I've half designed a few small cities. It took many, many hours. In the end, I use published materials for cities.

The book Sharn City of Towers was helpful. A complete pre-made city in the Eberron setting.

There's a pre-made city in the 3.5 DMGII called SaltMarsh.

 

[Alexander123]

I found the city of splendors: waterdeep FR supplement very helpful. It’s a very detailed look at a city. The city is pre-made so you can kind of understand what a city requires. As far as maps, I look at the FR interactive atlas (also a very helpful product.) and take inspiration from the maps there. The steps I would follow is first to list the broad categories what is needed. City guard, Churches, Ruffians (smugglers, etc. etc.), Guilds and Merchants, Arcane schools, Government, Nobility etc. Then start filling in the specifics. A checklist of things your city needs may be helpful. Then, once I have the organizations and the N.P.C.s I get to work on their relationship to one another, this is the part that really makes the city come alive. The DMG talks about monster power centers, if you want to add a few of those do that. Your city is connected to the outside world so make sure you establish that relationship, how much interaction you want your city to have with the outside world is up to you. Depending on the size of your city, you may have dungeons inside the city the P.C.s can plunder. (Although make sure you explain why it has not been plundered before.) Now one thing that’s important is how long your P.C.s are going to spend in the city. If they intend to use the city for just supplies and resting, then you might not need to go into as much detail since it will never be used. But if you intend to have your players get involved in the goings-on of the city, then I’d say you need details. Also, once you have filled in the details, make sure that your events move, whether the P.C.s were involved or not. For instance, if a two noble families are fighting and your P.C.s are battling a beholder or an aboleth in the sewers and are not involved, make sure that event plays itself out. The city should exist independent of the P.C.s so things are going to happen whether they exist or not, the P.C.s are free to get involved in a certain thing, but things will still take place if they don’t. Hope this helps.

 

[Orius]

Take a look at the DMG web enhancement as a starting point:

Dungeon Master's Guide v.3.5 Web Enhancement!

Basically, when it comes to distributing NPCs with PC class levels, it's up to the DM to decide how to place them. The DMG web enhancement can help you out a bit here. It divides cities into districts with an average of 500 people, which varies by the district's social class. There's a chart which lists class distribution for each district, using the PHB classes and the NPC classes from the DMG. Basically, what I do following the web enhancement, is make neighborhoods of several districts together and add up the NPC totals. So if you've got a wizard's guild, make a neighborhood of several appropriate districts where you want the guild based, count up all the wizards in those districts and decide how many of them you want to belong to the guild. You can do the same for bard colleges, temples, thieves' guilds, and the like.

 

[Mighty Halfling]

May I humbly point you to my PDFs that were published by RPGObjects:

Cities of Fantasy: Racial Neighborhoods -- Gives you some ideas on creating a few ethnic areas in your city, based on the core 3.5e races. (I think this one is of particular use to you.)

Cities of Fantasy: The Grave Diggers Guild -- Presents a villain organization that can operate within your city. They have a public front and a hidden agenda.

I also edited another city-themed project for EN World:

Faction Folio: The Blackcloak Watch -- A fantasy city's SWAT team for dealing with powerful creatures and characters.

 

[anest1s]

Thanks everyone, I will read everything now and I will post a city if I manage to make it here

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I was wondering, do you have any good advice on city building?
I think DMG has many holes...

For example, ok you roll for power center, you roll for wizards, etc...then how you know how many wizards are inside the Wizards Guild, and how many of them secretly work for the Thieves Guild?

You decide how many you want and that's how many there are. If you don't know or can't decide - but your players aren't actually asking - then it isn't important anyway. Let such details go until you need them or want them - and then just make it up.

Or except the obvious power centers, how other existing classes blend in the city?

Well how do YOU want them to blend? Have no idea? Then again it doesn't much matter until it has a direct effect upon the PC's.

I found some helpful ideas here and there, but nothing complete and independent by itself...for example in Races of Destiny there is a good guide. But still it isn't complete.

For good reason. The subject of demographics is so extensive and dynamic that you're really not doing yourself any favors by following any one system or set of parameters. No two cities are exactly the same and no random generation system is going to be able to provide you with anything but barest minimal DULL data points. Everything of GENUINE interest and usefulness ultimately must be provided by you.

How do you build your towns/cities? What steps you follow? Do you suggest any books which would help? (or info online)

I would only note that the random generation information in the DMG was NEVER intended to be more than a few tables and ideas to use in a pinch and NOT something to pattern every city in a game world after. The demographics of an entire campaign setting are ill served by more than the briefest, superficial reliance upon random generation.

Steal every idea you like from wherever you find it and then all you have to do is not try to throw it all into one city or nation all at once.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

It's not for D&D specifically, and doesn't account for classes, magic, and the like, but this generator build realistic medieval populations, though it's geared toward countries rather than cities. It's based on the essay, "Medieval Demographics Made Easy".

I like to run it, then "layer" the D&D classes on top of it. It's also nice as it presents a spread of professions, which I can look at and think about how they'd organize.

There are obvious power centers like clergy and nobles, but also a lot of professions that can be allied in various ways:
- Do the coopers align with wine-sellers or carpenters, and how could this be important on to the town as a whole?
- What if the bleachers are adversaries of the tailors, and who would care that bleached white cloth could come to have some sort of political or business significance?
- What if apothecaries, barbers and doctors decide to exert power over the soldiery when a war is looming: pay up or forget receiving any care after battle?
- Etc...

It doesn't really help make the kind of decisions you're looking for, but it does lay out a of data that you can look at and start mulling over possibilities-- especially once you've tacked on the possibilities for magic and other fantasy elements.

 

[CuRoi]

I like browsing historical info for ideas. I use it as a starting base and then throw in my own ideas. Sometimes I use the DMG charts but it usually ends up being mainly for brainstorming.

Try this site to get the ideas flowing:
Medieval English urban history: cities and towns in England during the Middle Ages

The last city I built was centered on the idea of a human population in a hostile environment. It was densely packed and separated into various Wards (each one being the size of a small city.) I started with a broad written overview - the stuff the DMG charts might give you as far as Power Centers, Notable NPC descriptions, general economy info. I then used something similar or perhaps the very same info mentioned by the_orc_within in the previous post ("Medieval Demographics Made Easy". ) to get a rough idea of commoner populations, guard ratios, etc.

Next, I started mapping out the city. I went into way too much detail (we're talking individual houses/shops here at street level...) and never quite finished more than one Ward, but I had more than enough detail for the campaign. There were many parts of the city the PCs never made it to but I think overall everyone enjoyed the campaign and greatly appreciated the level of detail.

They eventually began work on their own faction of sorts (something of a rival to the Thieves Guild) and got involved in some heavy fighting when the old established factions started being taken over by outside forces.

Anyway, hopefully this gives you some ideas on how to go about it! Looking forward to seeing your results : )