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I don't think that WotC can cater to older editions through 4E; because, 4E is pretty much feature-locked and the changes required to capture the feel of the older editions would require a new edition.

I don't like grouping rituals in terms of chronological scope of utility, such as combat vs. adventuring day. Using knock, (again!), for example: Letting it work all day won't really affect the narrative, since either the thief or the ritual caster was going to open all those doors anyways...

Starting and adventure path and we're looking to test the waters with some new players. We player every other Thursday. Our group is mostly 30-35. We lean to the theatrical style, but we like a good combat too.

There are other resources, such as hit points and healing surges, in the game that might be used for a new ritual mechanic. One might even make a case for burning an encounter or a daily power to cast a ritual. I think it's worth looking at non-gold options and not fiddling with the treasure...

Jack of all trades, Master of One?

Thanks, nutty ideas are my specialty.

AbdulAlhazred Nicely put. Especially the dichotomy of the working ritual system that is also not working.

*groans* I've fallen down the rabbit again...getting too focused on the example. I'm just brainstorming ideas. I'm not committed to this example mechanic I was using. The OP was about new ways to "price" rituals, and I was merely trying to look backward for inspiration. Since I'm playing both...

Thanks for the critical commentary on my brainstorming. I hope my responses don't come across as gruff, but I don't have time for a better response right now. They still have to buy the rituals to learn them. Or at the very least, any in addition to the one per level. Even in 4e, there are...

I'm not assuming that; instead, I'm using the terms interchangeably. With the new power system, rituals are spells, and the "combat spells" are really just flavor text for powers. So, I'm being a little casual with my word choice. That said, the idea still stands. Give ritual casters a spell...

Hmmm...I've tried to run with your idea a little (even though I should be focused on work...). Here's what I've come up with: This could be like having the Jump ritual. It gives the wizard a great bonus to a long jump or high jump, but not to Athletics. As the ritual caster grows in casting...

Agreed. My primary point was that there are elements of the old spell casting system that could be (and in my opinion ARE) possible fixes, and that some of the problems with the old system and the new could be avoided. I got a little into the weeds kludging together an example though.

That's an interesting idea, and it might work with more flesh on it. But, off the cuff, it's my feeling that it's too heavy a penalty to exclude a class from the skill system. IMO, your proposition would require affected classes to either start with spells to represent all or most skills OR...

I agree with you. That's why I proposed that ritual casters who are untrained in a skill be less effective than those who are trained (in my posts above). With respect, I disagree that the current system is fine. Players generally avoid using rituals, and as a community we've been trying to...

Not exactly what I had in mind. Specifically I was thinking that ritual casting classes, like the bard or wizard, would get a per day spell (ritual) progression and spells (rituals) known, as they did in older editions. Every level they get to add a ritual to their known spells list, similar to...

Precisely this. I'm not clear on why mike & monte need to go through all that revamping when something like this can hit the same mark. I'd add two more options: Take 1 and take 5. if you look at this idea you get DCs in the existing skill system, and look how nicely they pair up with Mike's...

Why? Good question. I propose that just as email has replaced a lot of written correspondence, those with access to rituals will often have another option than the mundane. You might ride a horse because you need to travel through the territory (for example, you're on patrol). You might ride a...

I don't see that rituals get used much in my group either, even with encouragement and components thrown at them. Even the travel rituals get forgotten unless I remind them. When we played 3.5, the players used magic all the time to shorten the road or overcome obstacles. I’m still not clear...

OUt of all the great suggestions, surely one of them will. I'll need to subscribe and see what scratches the itch best.

Those are great questions. I wish I had something substantive to suggest, but I don't work in publishing, so I don't know. What I do know is that I miss my monthly rag, and I'm disappointed with Ezines. I'd love to see ezines lined to Self Publishing, Book Printing & eBook Publishing |...