5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

ok - agree takes an hour to digest and for new powers to manifest.

ok so 1st-3rd lvl vs 4th + lvls then? (2 and 3?)

Casimir Liber said:

ok - agree takes an hour to digest and for new powers to manifest.

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So how long does it take to actually eat the brain?

Does the gu'en-deeko need an uninterrupted hour to eat a brain and absorb the powers, or can it scarf it down in a round and acquires the powers an hour later?

Casimir Liber said:

ok so 1st-3rd lvl vs 4th + lvls then? (2 and 3?)

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Yes, that's what I was thinking about, plus a CR equivalent for non-classed characters.

It might be easier to have the cut-off based on Hit Dice rather than class levels, as NPCs don't necessarily match to PC class levels very well.

An NPC mage, for example, is basically a 9th-level wizard spellcaster and Challenge 6, while a Bandit Captain has 10 Hit Dice but is only Challenge 2 and definitely falls way short of a classed fighter with similar Hit Points.

However, a 9th-level Wizard has +4 Proficiency Bonus and loads of class features, while the Mage only has a +3 Proficiency Bonus and Spellcasting.

A 10th-level fighter has a decent number of bonus features and a +4 Proficiency Bonus, while a mere Bandit Captain only has +2 Proficiency, Multiattack and Parry.

Maybe HD 1 to 3 or Challenge Rating up to 1 for the low-ranked brains, then HD 4+ or Challenge Rating 2+ for the high-ranked brain?

Oh, and die we discuss Ability Score Improvements?

One reason I put the cutoff at the 3rd class level is that the first Ability Score Improvement occurs at 4th level, so there's no way the gu'en-deeko can have Ability Improvements from multiple brains if it only has a single 4th+ level set of class features.

Also, must the gu'en-deeko have to use the same Ability Score Improvements as the brain it's eaten, even if those are suboptimal, or can it choose its own? A gu'en-deeko starts out with STR 18, so if it got +4 STR from two fighter class Ability Score Improvements it only benefits from +2 STR of them as it's hit the "you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature" cap.

Furthermore, if we are using the "Charisma becomes that of the highest CHA brain donor" rule, then Ability Score Improvements to CHA are presumably worthless and should go somewhere else.

Or maybe not give it Ability Score Improvements at all? Although I can would think gu'en-deeko that have gained high Challenge Ratings due to eating a lot of brains would probably have higher Ability Scores than a beginning 'deeko.

Aaargh...so complicated. Maye just ditch the ability score improvements...

Brain eating - large apeoid thing with big mouth...hmmm...maybe 2d6 + 10 minutes to crack open a skull and eat?

Casimir Liber said:

Aaargh...so complicated. Maye just ditch the ability score improvements...

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I'd have a high-Challenge version of a gu'en-deeko have better stats than the regular version, but it'd be easier not including them.

Casimir Liber said:

Brain eating - large apeoid thing with big mouth...hmmm...maybe 2d6 + 10 minutes to crack open a skull and eat?

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Let's say a nice round 10 minutes. Maybe:

Brain-Eating. If the gu'en-deeko spends 10 (2d4 + 5) minutes* eating the brain of a freshly killed humanoid (one who died less than 30 minutes ago), it gains the memories and many of the abilities of that humanoid one hour later.

* If it matters, the exact number of rounds it takes the gu'en-deeko to crack open a dead humanoid's skull and devour the brain can be determined by rolling 3d20 + 1d4 + 66.

Ok that looks good..

ok - with stats then - maybe it assumes the highest INT/WIS/CHA scores of victims that it currently retains any traits/skills from? Keep t simple..

Casimir Liber said:

Ok that looks good..

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I'm wondering about making it less swingy with 10 (2d3 + 6) minutes instead, which can be determined to an exact number of rounds with 3d12 + 1d8 + 76.

Casimir Liber said:

ok - with stats then - maybe it assumes the highest INT/WIS/CHA scores of victims that it currently retains any traits/skills from? Keep t simple..

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Well there's no mention of Thaaak getting any smarter after eating Tizun Thane so that doesn't seem right. Maybe if we just have it use the same modifiers or DCs as its victim used rather than recalculate them with its own mental abilities? That'd be relatively simple.

Consider this: if a gu'en-deeko steals an Int-based skill from a creature with a low Intelligence, say Nature +3 from an orc druid with INT 10, do we want it to use Nature +6 because it ate the brains of someone with INT 17?

Cleon said:

Well there's no mention of Thaaak getting any smarter after eating Tizun Thane so that doesn't seem right. Maybe if we just have it use the same modifiers or DCs as its victim used rather than recalculate them with its own mental abilities? That'd be relatively simple.

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ok let's roll with that then

Casimir Liber said:

ok let's roll with that then

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Revising the Gu'en-Deeko brain eating…

Brain-Eating. If the gu'en-deeko spends 10 (2d3 + 6) minutes* eating the brain of a freshly killed humanoid (one who died less than 30 minutes previously), it gains the memories and many of the abilities of that humanoid one hour later. A gu'en-deeko can absorb skills, knowledge-based racial abilities such as Dwarven Combat Training, languages and most class abilities from the brain, but does not gain any physical traits or racial abilities of the humanoid whose brain it ate such as Darkvision, or Dwarven Resilience.
 *If it matters, the exact number of rounds it takes the gu'en-deeko to crack open a dead humanoid's skull and devour the brain can be determined by rolling 3d12 + 1d8 + 76.
 If a gu'en-deeko absorbs the brain of a humanoid with a level 3 or lower and a Challenge Rating of 1 or less, the skills, racial abilities, traits and class abilities it absorbed from the brain last for 1 year. The gu'en-deeko retains the brain's memories after the year ends, but none of the powers it gained.
 If a gu'en-deeko eats the brain of a humanoid with a level of 4 or higher or a Challenge Rating of 2 or more, the powers it gains last until it eats the brain of another humanoid whose level or Challenge Rating is the same or higher. If that happens, the gu'en-deeko gains the powers of the new brain and those powers it gained from the previous high-level brain are reduced to a 3rd-level character of that class, then vanish a year later (as above).
 If a gu'en-deeko eats the brain of a humanoid with a level of 6 or higher, a Challenge Rating of 3 or more, or a mental ability (INT, WIS, CHA) of 16 or higher, the gu'en-deeko must succeed at a Wisdom saving throw against a DC equal to 10 plus the Proficiency Bonus and highest Mental Ability Bonus of the humanoid the brain came from or go insane, believing itself to be the humanoid whose brain it devoured.
 A gu'en-deeko's Charisma score increases to match the highest mental ability score from the brains it has eaten. If a gu'en-deeko acquires the class feature Ability Score Improvement from a stolen brain, it always invests the improvement in a physical ability score (STR, DEX, CON) rather than a mental one, regardless of how the humanoid it stole it from invested that class feature.
 Powers gained via brain-eating never stack; if the gu'en-deeko gains the same ability multiple times, only the most powerful one applies. For example, if a gu'en-deeko ate the brains of a 2nd-level cleric, a 3rd-level bard, and a 3rd-level druid, it gains 3rd-level Spellcasting, not three separate sets of Spellcasting (see below for Gu'en-Deeko Spellcasting). A gu'en-deeko can possess multiple abilities that use spells if they are different types of magic-use. For example, it could possess Innate Spellcasting from multiple sources, such as a Drow Elf and a Svirfneblin, together with Spellcasting from a Wizard and Pact Magic from a Warlock, all at the same time. A gu'en-deeko is unable to gain class features granted by an external power without that power's permission. Thus, if a gu'en-deeko ate the brain of a warlock, the gu'en-deeko would have to strike a bargain with that warlock's otherworldly Patron to gain most of the warlock class abilities.
 If the gained power is controlled by a mental ability (INT, WIS, CHA), it uses the numerical modifiers of the humanoid it was stolen from rather than the gu'en-deeko's. A gu'en-deeko that eats the brain of a druid with Nature +6 will gain Nature +6, not the Nature +1 it would have from its own Intelligence score and Proficiency Bonus.
 If the gained power is controlled by a physical ability (STR, DEX, CON), the gu'en-deeko can use its own ability score bonuses if this would give it a better numerical modifier than the humanoid it was stolen from.
 Increased Hit Points: The gu'en-deeko gains bonus hit points from brain-eating. It either gains bonus hit points that give it a hit point total equal to the highest hit points of a humanoid whose brain powers it currently possesses, or it has hit points equal its own hit points (normally 45) plus 1 hit point per Hit Dice possessed by the humanoid with the most HD whose brain it has ever eaten, whichever is higher.
 Challenge Rating: A gu'en-deeko normally uses its own CR or the highest CR of the humanoids whose brain powers it possesses, whichever is greater. If the gu'en-deeko has powers from numerous brains that effectively synergy together this might increase its CR at the DM's discretion (use the Dungeon Master's Guide section on monster creation for guidance, pages 273 through 283).
 Spellcasting: ???.

For the HP and CR I'm thinking:

 Increased Hit Points: The gu'en-deeko gains bonus hit points from brain-eating. It either gains bonus hit points that give it a hit point total equal to the highest hit points of a humanoid whose brain powers it currently possesses, or it has hit points equal its own hit points (normally 45) plus 1 hit point per Hit Dice possessed by the humanoid with the most HD whose brain it has ever eaten, whichever is higher.

 Challenge Rating: A gu'en-deeko normally uses its own CR or the highest CR of the humanoids whose brain powers it possesses, whichever is greater. If the gu'en-deeko has powers from numerous brains that effectively synergy together this might increase its CR at the DM's discretion (use the Dungeon Master's Guide section on monster creation for guidance, pages 273 through 283).

That looks about right to me.

grammar " (one who died less than 30 minutes ago)" --> "(one who died less than 30 minutes previously)"

Can go either way on the CHA score increasing. Leaning to "yes"

Otherwise I think this is detailed enough to work. Might have to playtest it...