5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition
- Thread starter Cleon
- Start date
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Cleon
Legend
Yes, I could go either way too but it somehow seems more appropriate without it…
Reverted the the Enworld Gurgotch to Huge fiend, chaotic evil.
It's still got (Demon) in that link.
Cleon
Legend
Gurgotch Behemoth? Merge the two together into the Gurgohemoth?
Challenge Rating 18 seems a reasonable target. We don't want them to be a pushover!
I thought we were going for Colossal so they can have small keeps full of fiends and evil doers on their backs, à la Legend of the Sword, since that's what started off this madness.
Unless you're wanting to stat another one that's even more enormous!
I was thinking maybe give it a different Breath Weapon than the regular Gurgotch, or maybe give it a range of Breath Weapons or even several ranged attacks. Like the ability to shoot lines of lightning and/or fire from its tail and trunk? Or maybe the ability to hurl massive boulders?
Was also thinking it could have a Sweep attack to brush petty opponents out of existence.
Cleon
Legend
Speaking of the regular Gurgotch's Breath Weapon, I just thought of something.
As written, its tetraplegic victims will stand in place like statues since, like the 5E Paralyzed condition, there's no mention of the victim falling prone.
That means they'd have to stiffen their limbs and hold them immobile to stay upright, like someone with Withdrawn Catatonia. However, doesn't real world paralysis tend to cause its victims limbs go all noodle-like since their muscles aren't receiving any nerve signals. Rather than remaining rigidly on their feet, a paralyzed creature usually collapses in a heap.
If that's the case with gurgotch gas it would create more targets for the Demon Elephant to stomp and trample upon!
I'm tempted to amend the Breath Weapon's "must succeed at a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against poison or become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute" to "must succeed at a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against poison or fall prone and become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute."
What do you think?
As written, its tetraplegic victims will stand in place like statues since, like the 5E Paralyzed condition, there's no mention of the victim falling prone.
That means they'd have to stiffen their limbs and hold them immobile to stay upright, like someone with Withdrawn Catatonia. However, doesn't real world paralysis tend to cause its victims limbs go all noodle-like since their muscles aren't receiving any nerve signals. Rather than remaining rigidly on their feet, a paralyzed creature usually collapses in a heap.
If that's the case with gurgotch gas it would create more targets for the Demon Elephant to stomp and trample upon!
I'm tempted to amend the Breath Weapon's "must succeed at a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against poison or become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute" to "must succeed at a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against poison or fall prone and become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute."
What do you think?
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Yes - dammit thought I removed the demon tag - also yes adding "fall prone" is what I was thinking but agree it needs to be spelt out
and a colossal Gurgohemoth sounds good to me
and a colossal Gurgohemoth sounds good to me
Cleon
Legend
Updating the Gurgotch.
Sounds good!
So are we adopting Gurgohemoth as the name or shall we leave it on the burner to see if we can come up with anything better?
Let's see…
Gurgotch Juggernaut => Gurgoggernaut?
Not keen on that. Gurgohemoth has a nicer ring to it.
Anyhow, it's approaching midnight over here so I'll call it a night.
It's a night!
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Cleon
Legend
Updated the 5E Indexes. Took me way longer than it should - I kept on frelling up the links and had to correct them.
Cleon
Legend
Okay, moving on to the Gurgotch Juggernaut Gurgohemoth then!
Hold on a moment, there's no such thing as Colossal size in 5E, the sizes cap at Gargantuan. I'm too used to designing 3E monsters. Better change it back to Gargantuan!
I've updated the size and CR to "new and improved" figures in your latest version (i.e. the deadlier one!), so I guess we'll just go through the rest of the statblock in order like we normally do.
OK, the AC 20 and 580 hp are both a bit higher than the Challenge 18 average, but I think that's reasonable as I think we're aiming for a creature that's really tough to take down but has a relatively low damage output for its CR. That gives under-CR'd parties more opportunity to retreat* before they get squashed!
*I guess we could give it some version of Frightful Presence to encourage them to run away?
On that note, the PCs won't be able to run away in terror if they're unable to move their legs! That bolsters my inclination to change the regular Gurgotch's paralyzing breath to a more conventional damage causing area-of-effect attack such as a cone of fire and/or acid, a cloud of disease-inflicting poison, a violent windstorm that bludgeons and blows victims away, et cetera.
We can leave the Breath Weapon for later, we've got Abilities to consider next.
The current draft still has an older version of the regular sized version's stats, namely:
That's a bit weaksauce. It's no stronger than a Mammoth (STR 25, CON 21) which is considerably smaller and has a higher CON too boot.
There don't appear to be any CR 18 monsters in the Monster Manual, but that's between the CR 17 Adult Red Dragon (STR 27, CON 25) and the CR 19 Balor (STR 26, CON 22). Thought about using the Dragon Turtle (STR 25, CON 20) as a comparison, but Strength 25 is strangely weedy for a Gargantuan dragon considering an adult red is a size smaller and has a STR two points higher.
The Balor and Red Dragon are both Huge and our baby isCOLOSSAL Gargantuan, so I'd give it a Strength from 27 to 29, depending on whether you prefer a +8 or +9 for the ability modifier. I don't want to make it quite as strong as the top of the goliath monsters such as a Tarrasque (STR 30, CON 30) or Ancient Red Dragon (STR 30, CON 29) but I'd like it to be semi-competitive with them.
Which brings us onto Constitution, which also needs a boost. I think CON 23 (+6) would be enough. That said, I'd be open to making it ridiculously tough with, say CON 30 (+10).
We'd better reduce the number of Hit Dice if we're keeping it at around Challenge 18.
How about one of the following:
I think DEX 10 is fine.
Will leave discussing Mental Ability scores for later.
Hold on a moment, there's no such thing as Colossal size in 5E, the sizes cap at Gargantuan. I'm too used to designing 3E monsters. Better change it back to Gargantuan!
I've updated the size and CR to "new and improved" figures in your latest version (i.e. the deadlier one!), so I guess we'll just go through the rest of the statblock in order like we normally do.
OK, the AC 20 and 580 hp are both a bit higher than the Challenge 18 average, but I think that's reasonable as I think we're aiming for a creature that's really tough to take down but has a relatively low damage output for its CR. That gives under-CR'd parties more opportunity to retreat* before they get squashed!
*I guess we could give it some version of Frightful Presence to encourage them to run away?
On that note, the PCs won't be able to run away in terror if they're unable to move their legs! That bolsters my inclination to change the regular Gurgotch's paralyzing breath to a more conventional damage causing area-of-effect attack such as a cone of fire and/or acid, a cloud of disease-inflicting poison, a violent windstorm that bludgeons and blows victims away, et cetera.
We can leave the Breath Weapon for later, we've got Abilities to consider next.
The current draft still has an older version of the regular sized version's stats, namely:
STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
25 (+7) | 10 (+0) | 19 (+4) | 10 (+0) | 12 (+1) | 12 (+1) |
That's a bit weaksauce. It's no stronger than a Mammoth (STR 25, CON 21) which is considerably smaller and has a higher CON too boot.
There don't appear to be any CR 18 monsters in the Monster Manual, but that's between the CR 17 Adult Red Dragon (STR 27, CON 25) and the CR 19 Balor (STR 26, CON 22). Thought about using the Dragon Turtle (STR 25, CON 20) as a comparison, but Strength 25 is strangely weedy for a Gargantuan dragon considering an adult red is a size smaller and has a STR two points higher.
The Balor and Red Dragon are both Huge and our baby is
Which brings us onto Constitution, which also needs a boost. I think CON 23 (+6) would be enough. That said, I'd be open to making it ridiculously tough with, say CON 30 (+10).
We'd better reduce the number of Hit Dice if we're keeping it at around Challenge 18.
How about one of the following:
Hit Points 495 (30d20 + 180) [CON 23]
Hit Points 525 (30d20 + 240) [CON 27]
Hit Points 512 (25d20 + 250) [CON 30]
Hit Points 525 (30d20 + 240) [CON 27]
Hit Points 512 (25d20 + 250) [CON 30]
I think DEX 10 is fine.
Will leave discussing Mental Ability scores for later.
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