Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

Cleon · Jul 14, 2015

freyar said:
Ugh. Let me get this straight. The nightmare rat may not even be a real monster. It's presented as a monster with a phantasmal killer power, but then that's all part of another dream? Double ugh.

In the context of the adventure the monster is a dream, yes, but I was assuming we'll be statting it up as an ordinary real monster.

freyar said:
My vote is to make a rat monster with a straight-up phantasmal killer attached to the bite. How's that sound?

Sounds OK to me, although when you say "straight-up phantasmal killer" do you mean make it a bite-delivered spell-like ability or a supernatural ability that just uses the same mechanics as the spell?

Anyhow, I'll start a working draft with a standard rat made into a Magical Beast.

Cleon · Jul 14, 2015

Nightmare Rat Working Draft

Nightmare Rat
Tiny Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 1d10 (5 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-11
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4 plus phantasmal killer)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4 plus phantasmal killer)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: phantasmal killer
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 2, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +12, Hide +16, Move Silently +10, Swim +10
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary, family (2-10), or pack (11-20)
Challenge Rating: 1
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

A giant rat of peculiarly vile appearance. It has an air of malevolence that is almost fiendish.

Nightmare rats are supernatural entities who occasionally appear in areas where a dream dimension incurs into the material world. Some scholars believe they are an illusory manifestation of the fear of rodents, rather than "real" physical creatures. If these nasty little monsters are material creatures, they are most likely the mutated descendants of ordinary rats that somehow crossed over into a dimension of dreams.

A nightmare rat can grow to be 2 feet long and weighs up to 8 pounds.

COMBAT
Nightmare rats attack from ambush, trying to bring down prey with their phantasmal killer ability. They flee if confronted, but fight viciously when cornered or defending their nest.

Phantasmal Killer (Su): Any creature bitten by a nightmare rat immediately sees an image of an incredibly fearsome beast. The victim must make a DC 12 Will save. If they fail, they take 3d6 damage and must succeed at a DC 12 Fortitude save or die of fear. This vision can never be reflected on the nightmare rat, but it acts otherwise like a phantasmal killer spell. This phantasm is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Skills: Nightmare rats have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, and Swim checks. A nightmare rat can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. A nightmare rat uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for Climb checks.

Originally appeared in Tales From the Infinite Staircase (1998).

Cleon · Jul 14, 2015

Cleon said:
Nightmare Rat

Okay, the original monster has 8 hit points, so should we give it Toughness as a bonus feat so our conversion matches?

It's also faster than a normal rat, having the same Move 15 as a Giant Rat, so I think we'd better upgrade the speed to 40 ft., climb 20 ft. like the 3E Dire Rat.

Do we give it a Swim speed like the 3E normal Rat or cut it like the Dire Rat?

We also need to add an Alignment - I'm thinking either "Always neutral evil" or "Usually neutral evil" to match the original's NE.

freyar · Jul 19, 2015

Cleon said:
Sounds OK to me, although when you say "straight-up phantasmal killer" do you mean make it a bite-delivered spell-like ability or a supernatural ability that just uses the same mechanics as the spell?

I was thinking an Sp delivered by the bite. I guess I'd probably allow a save even though it requires an attack roll, though.

Cleon said:
Okay, the original monster has 8 hit points, so should we give it Toughness as a bonus feat so our conversion matches?

We could do that, but I think I'd rather just bump Con to 16.

It's also faster than a normal rat, having the same Move 15 as a Giant Rat, so I think we'd better upgrade the speed to 40 ft., climb 20 ft. like the 3E Dire Rat.

Do we give it a Swim speed like the 3E normal Rat or cut it like the Dire Rat?

Hmmm. Let's do 40 ft, climb 20 ft, no swim speed.

We also need to add an Alignment - I'm thinking either "Always neutral evil" or "Usually neutral evil" to match the original's NE.

Always NE, I think.

Cleon · Jul 19, 2015

freyar said:
I was thinking an Sp delivered by the bite. I guess I'd probably allow a save even though it requires an attack roll, though.

If we make it a (Sp) it will provoke attacks of opportunity and the Rat must make Concentration checks for its nightmare attack to work if it interrupted before it completes it. The Nightmare Rat's size of Tiny means it'll probably already suffer one AoO before it gets a chance to hit. If it has to weather two it'll likely be dead before it has a chance to use it. Well, I guess that would only happen if its opponent has Combat Reflexes or a similar ability, but it's still a bother.

Making it (Su) is a lot easier.

freyar said:
We could do that, but I think I'd rather just bump Con to 16.

That's fine by me.

freyar said:
Hmmm. Let's do 40 ft, climb 20 ft, no swim speed.

Do you have something in particular against Swim?

freyar said:
Always NE, I think.

That's also fine by me.

freyar · Jul 23, 2015

Oh, yikes, you're right on the Sp. I guess make it Su but just say "as the phantasmal killer spell."

Nothing particular against a swim speed, just a way to distinguish from the normal rat.

Cleon · Jul 23, 2015

freyar said:
Oh, yikes, you're right on the Sp. I guess make it Su but just say "as the phantasmal killer spell."

So do you want to write up a rough draft for the power, or shall I?

freyar said:
Nothing particular against a swim speed, just a way to distinguish from the normal rat.

As you like.

I think I gave my Homebrew version a Swim speed too, so it'll help distinguish it from that too - which is obviously way more important!

freyar · Jul 30, 2015

I'd go with

Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4 plus phantasmal killer)

Phantasmal Killer (Su): Any creature bitten by a nightmare rat immediately sees an image of an incredibly fearsome beast. The victim must make a DC X Fortitude save or die of fear (the victim takes 3d6 hp damage on a successful save). This vision can never be reflected on the nightmare rat, but it acts otherwise like a phantasmal killer spell. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Not sure about the part in red, but that was my idea.

Cleon · Jul 30, 2015

freyar said:
I'd go with

Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4 plus phantasmal killer)

Phantasmal Killer (Su): Any creature bitten by a nightmare rat immediately sees an image of an incredibly fearsome beast. The victim must make a DC X Fortitude save or die of fear (the victim takes 3d6 hp damage on a successful save). This vision can never be reflected on the nightmare rat, but it acts otherwise like a phantasmal killer spell. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Not sure about the part in red, but that was my idea.

A victim of phantasmal killer gets two saves, Will and Fort. If we're having it work as the spell, shouldn't we do the same?

Also, is it an illusion (phantasm) like the spell?

e.g.

Phantasmal Killer (Su): Any creature bitten by a nightmare rat immediately sees an image of an incredibly fearsome beast. The victim must make a DC X Will save. If they fail, they take 3d6 damage and must succeed at a DC X Fortitude save or die of fear. This vision can never be reflected on the nightmare rat, but it acts otherwise like a phantasmal killer spell. This is a mind-affecting fear [illusion (phantasm)?] effect.

freyar · Aug 5, 2015

There shouldn't be a Will save to avoid the effect entirely since the rat has to make an attack first. At least that's the normal way these things work, though I'm sure there's precedent both ways. Are you worried it's too deadly otherwise?