Converting True Dragons

freyar said:

Noticed a typo: the spell is reincarnate, not reincarnation.

I proposed the possibility of limited wish because reincarnate is a Druid 4 spell, so I don't think you'd need two limited wishes.

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Oh right. But that'd bring the victim back in a new body, it wouldn't restore the original body to life.

How about...

Breath Weapon (Su): A sand dragon has one breath weapon, a line of strange energy that causes X damage per age category. A victim that makes a successful Reflex save takes only 1/4 damage, but any living creature killed by the breath weapon is turned into a pile of fine white sand. Creatures who are immune to petrification are unaffected by this breath weapon.

A creature that has been turned to sand can be restored to life with a wish, miracle, or resurrection spell - the sand counts as the small portion of a body required for resurrection. Alternatively, a make whole spell can turn the pile of sand into a petrified corpse, which can then be turned into a fleshy but still dead body with a stone to flesh spell, then returned to life with a raise dead spell. Two carefully worded limited wish spells can also restore the victim's original body - the first to transform their remains into a petrified corpse, and the second to return the corpse to living flesh.

The victim can also be brought back in another body using a reincarnate spell (or a limited wish used to duplicate reincarnate).

freyar said:

Let's get down to progressions. In 3.5e, Bronze is between Red and Silver in terms of mental scores, so why don't we go with that progression? Wis is already the highest score (by a touch).

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Well we could make one mental ability from the Red, one from the Silver, and one from the Bronze. Maybe the Silver's Wisdom, the Bronze's Intelligence and the Red's Charisma?

That'd give them a stat range from wyrmling to great wyrm of:

Intelligence: 14 to 26
Wisdom: 15 to 31
Charisma: 10 to 26

freyar said:

HD like Gold should work. To deal with the size and damage values (which are tied together), I suggest going with a medium size progression like Brass or Bronze and then a weak physical ability progression.

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I'd be concerned about not making the physical abilities too weak, since these dragons do have a lot of Hit Dice.

Are we giving them standard claw & bite damages for their size? The original has a relatively weak bite attack compared to its claws, so we could make its bite "one size weaker" or give it a standard bite and make its claws one size stronger.

I prefer the "stronger claws" solution - it's a burrower, so ought to have powerful digging claws, plus it will lack wing attacks.

Anyhow, it'd be easier once we have some actual numbers to argue about.

I'd better start up a Working Draft.

Dune Dragon
Dragon (Earth)
Environment: warm desert or warm aquatic (beaches)
Organization: Wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2-5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (1-2 and 2-5 offspring)
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 4; very young 5; young 7; juvenile 10; young adult 13; adult 15; mature adult 18; old 20; very old 21; ancient 23; wyrm 24; great wyrm 26
Treasure: Triple standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: Wyrmling 9-10 HD (Small); very young 12-13 HD (Medium); young 15-16 HD (Medium); juvenile 18-19 HD (Large); young adult 21-22 HD (Large); adult 24-25 HD (Huge); mature adult 27-28 HD (Huge); old 30-31 HD (Huge); very old 33-34 HD (Huge); ancient 36-37 HD (Gargantuan); wyrm 39-40 HD (Gargantuan); great wyrm 42+ HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: Wyrmling +4, very young +4, young +5

Dune Dragons by Age Dune Dragon Abilities by Age
* Can also cast druid spells and those from the Earth and Sun domains as arcane spells. If you use the Sandstorm book a dune dragon can also cast spells from the Sand domain as arcane spells.

A wormlike reptile covered in shell-shaped scales the color of sand, with strikingly blue eyes set in a diamond-shaped head. Its long sinuous body has a forked tail and short, powerful legs well suited for swimming and burrowing. The creature's four feet are strongly clawed and webbed.

These wingless dragons live in deserts, beaches and similar sandy areas. They love to wander and are often encountered far from their lairs. Dune dragons are basically solitary, but are willing to converse with travelers, sometimes even going so far as to provide helpful information to adventurers. They normally only become aggressive when threatened or if their treasure is disturbed - the hoards of these dragons are usually buried deep under the sand, near or below their own lairs.

Female dune dragons produce three eggs once every decade or so, which they bury deep and leave. The hatchlings emerge after a year and instinctively seek out an adult dune dragon to care for it (who may or may not be its parent). The unrestricted society of dune dragons is based on teaching magic to these hatchlings and introducing them to other dune dragons.

Combat
Dune dragons are typically content to avoid other creatures, preferring to hide from contact. However, they are implacable foes when irritated, especially if their treasure hoard is disturbed. Dune dragons often try to ambush or outmaneuver their enemies by burrowing under the sand.

Breath Weapon (Su): A dune dragon has one breath weapon, a line of strange energy that causes 2d10 damage per age category. A victim that makes a successful Reflex save takes only 1/4 damage, but any living creature killed by the breath weapon is turned into a pile of fine white sand. Creatures who are immune to petrification are unaffected by this breath weapon.

A creature that has been turned to sand can be restored to life with a wish, miracle, or resurrection spell - the sand counts as the small portion of a body required for resurrection. Alternatively, a make whole spell can turn the pile of sand into a petrified corpse, which can then be turned into a fleshy but still dead body with a stone to flesh spell, then returned to life with a raise dead spell. Two carefully worded limited wish spells can also restore the victim's original body - the first to transform their remains into a petrified corpse, and the second to return the corpse to living flesh.

The victim can also be brought back in another body using a reincarnate spell (or a limited wish used to duplicate reincarnate).

The save DC against the dragon's breath weapon is 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Con modifier.

Increased Claw Damage (Ex): Because of their sharp claws and muscular legs, dune dragons deal claw damage as if they were one size category larger.

Pass Without Trace (Sp): A dune dragon can use pass without trace (as the spell) at will.

Other Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day—heat metal (juvenile or older), move earth (adult or older); 1/day—hallucinatory terrain (old or older), waves of exhaustion (ancient or older) and whirlwind (great wyrm).

Water Breathing (Ex): A dune dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

Skills: A dune dragon gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks when in beach or desert areas. Further, a dune dragon can burrow through sand with only its eyes and nostrils showing, gaining a +8 cover bonus on Hide checks, which increases to a +24 cover bonus when the dune dragon is immobile.

Note: This monster was originally called a "sand dragon", but was renamed to differentiate it from the sand dragon in Sandstorm (2005).

Originally from Dragon Magazine #134 (1988)

I see, Sandstorm already has a Sand Dragon. Dune Dragon will work well for this, I agree.

Regarding mental abilities, have we ever picked from different progressions for each stat? I thought we usually stuck with comparison to one dragon or another for all 3.

freyar said:

I see, Sandstorm already has a Sand Dragon. Dune Dragon will work well for this, I agree.

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Updating Dune Dragon Working Draft.

freyar said:

Regarding mental abilities, have we ever picked from different progressions for each stat? I thought we usually stuck with comparison to one dragon or another for all 3.

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We've done Dragon conversions with different progressions for each stat, such as the Auburn Dragon.

The breath weapon is fine.

Here are my proposed progressions:
HD like Gold
AC like Bronze
Size like Bronze with stronger claws
Int like Bronze
Wis like Silver
Cha like Red
Str, Dex, Con like Bronze
CL like Red

freyar said:

The breath weapon is fine.

Here are my proposed progressions:
HD like Gold
AC like Bronze
Size like Bronze with stronger claws
Int like Bronze
Wis like Silver
Cha like Red
Str, Dex, Con like Bronze
CL like Red

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That looks pretty good. Would you also consider a weaker bite attack to reflect the original's modest bite damage?

Cleon said:

That looks pretty good. Would you also consider a weaker bite attack to reflect the original's modest bite damage?

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Might as well start updating the Dune Dragon Working Draft with the rough stats Freyar proposed.

Cleon said:

Are we giving them standard claw & bite damages for their size? The original has a relatively weak bite attack compared to its claws, so we could make its bite "one size weaker" or give it a standard bite and make its claws one size stronger.

I prefer the "stronger claws" solution - it's a burrower, so ought to have powerful digging claws, plus it will lack wing attacks.

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Of your proposals, I was going with standard bite and stronger claws.

freyar said:

Of your proposals, I was going with standard bite and stronger claws.

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Come to think of it, the original's 1-8/1-8/2-20 is identical to a 2E Green Dragon's, but has claws 1 step stronger than a 1E Green Dragon, which is more support for going either standard bite plus either standard claws or one-size-stronger claws.

It might be worth considering going back to standard damage for both, since the flavour text ("four short, muscular legs which end in webbed feet suitable for digging and swimming") has little to suggest their legs are exceptionally powerful.

However, I do quite still quite like the idea and giving dune dragons stronger claws would help distinguish them from other dragons.

We'd need some sort of Special Ability to describe it, i.e.:

Increased Claw Damage (Ex): Because of their sharp claws and muscular legs, dune dragons deal claw damage as if they were one size category larger.

The above is a radically pruned version of the Increased Damage ability of the Fang Dragon from Monsters of Faerûn.

Hmm. I'd go for that, except we're already making them bigger than Green with the Bronze size progression. So I'd either (a) give them the same size as Bronze with standard damage values or (b) give them the Green size progression and your proposed Increased Claw Damage ability. Which do you prefer?