Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

freyar said:

2d10+10 rounds will work for me.

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Okay, so are we now agreed on:

Poison (Ex): A rough-skinned newt's skin and many of its internal organs are poisonous. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Touch poison: Contact, Fortitude DC X, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Dex.

Organ poison: Ingestion, Fortitude DC X, initial damage 1d6 Dex and secondary damage 1d10 Dex. If the victim's Dexterity reaches 0, the victim cannot breath for 2d10+10 rounds, which may cause suffocation.

I'll go along with that. Slap it into a regular lizard, add Aquatic and Amphibious, and call it a day?

freyar said:

I'll go along with that. Slap it into a regular lizard, add Aquatic and Amphibious, and call it a day?

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We don't need Aquatic do we? The SRD Toad just has Amphibious, after all.

Anyhow, I'll post a Working Draft.

Rough-Skinned Newt Working Draft

Newt, Rough-Skinned
Diminutive Animal
Hit Dice: ¼d8 (1 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 15 ft. (3 squares), climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+4 size), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-17
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-5 plus skin poison)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-5 plus skin poison)
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison
Special Qualities: Amphibious, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +8, Climb +8, Hide +14, Listen +3, Move Silently +2, Spot +3, Swim +8
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesseᴮ
Environment: Temperate plains and forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1/3
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

A tiny brownish salamander about as long as a human hand. It has granular skin and a bright yellow-orange belly.

Rough-skinned newts are poisonous amphibians. The adults spend most of their time on dry land, but usually live close to the freshwater ponds and streams they use for breeding. These newts eat insect and worms much smaller than themselves.

A typical rough-skinned newt is up to six inches long (half of which is tail) and weighs less than an ounce.

COMBAT
A rough-skinned newt might bite an attacker in self defense but is more likely to hide. It mostly relies on its poison to protect itself.

Amphibious (Ex): Rough-skinned newts can breathe both air and water, although they rarely travel very far from water.

Poison (Ex): A rough-skinned newt's skin and many of its internal organs are poisonous. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

Skin poison: Contact (including bite attack or grapple), Fortitude DC 10, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Dex.

Organ poison: Ingestion, Fortitude DC 10, initial damage 1d6 Dex and secondary damage 1d10 Dex. If the victim's Dexterity reaches 0, the victim cannot breath for 2d10+10 rounds, which may cause suffocation.

Skills: Rough-skinned newts have a +8 racial bonus on Balance checks. They also have a +8 racial bonus on Climb or Swim checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb or Swim checks, even if rushed or threatened. Rough-skinned newts use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb checks. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Cleon said:

Newt, Rough-Skinned
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Environment: Temperate forests
Challenge Rating: 1/3?

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Okay, I added a Swim speed (since they're aquatic) and changed the SRD Lizard's climate to Temperate (since rough-skinned newts live in such conditions).

We need to increase the CR from the SRD Lizard's 1/6 to account for the poison. I put in 1/3 like the Tiny Viper, since they seemed roughly equivalent, but would be fine with CR 1/2 if you prefer that.

Do we want to tweak the stats any further?

I'm wondering about cutting the speeds to 15 ft. like the SRD Tiny viper, since newts are generally slower than lizards, but can't think of any other tweaks I'm that keen on.

The toad also doesn't list what "amphibious" means as a SQ. From the subtypes description, it's apparent that the Amphibious SQ just lets (some) Aquatic critters breathe air. So I think we should just add the Aquatic subtype.

Reducing the speed is ok with me.

freyar said:

The toad also doesn't list what "amphibious" means as a SQ. From the subtypes description, it's apparent that the Amphibious SQ just lets (some) Aquatic critters breathe air. So I think we should just add the Aquatic subtype.

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Well the fact that the SRD Toad has it proves that the Amphibious special quality doesn't require the Aquatic subtype.

How about we use the Merfolk's description of that special ability, since it makes no mention of the Aquatic trait?

Amphibious (Ex): Merfolk Rough-skinned newts can breathe both air and water, although they rarely travel more than a few feet from the water’s edge.

Looking for precedents, I couldn't find any Frog, Toad or Newt with the Aquatic subtype in the Creature Catalog, SRD or Oriental Adventures (the latter source contains a few Giant Frogs & Toads).

Then again, the SRD Toad was the only Frog, Toad or Newt I could find with the Amphibious SQ.

The closest to an Aquatic + Amphibious amphibian-like creature I could find was the Froghemoth from Dungeon #128 - but that's hardly a good precedent for a real world animal!

freyar said:

Reducing the speed is ok with me.

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I'll update the Rough-Skinned Newt Working Draft with that.

The problem is that the SRD isn't really self-consistent with the Amphibious SQ, and people have followed that lead. (It's almost like the various people working on monsters at WotC didn't talk to each other.) But I suppose it doesn't really matter. The stats all look about right.

freyar said:

The problem is that the SRD isn't really self-consistent with the Amphibious SQ, and people have followed that lead. (It's almost like the various people working on monsters at WotC didn't talk to each other.) But I suppose it doesn't really matter. The stats all look about right.

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Well even someone nigh-infallible like I am occasionally lapses from self-consistency.

(I only do it to keep you on your toes, of course, ).

Since I strongly prefer the SRD toad approach and you don't seem to be too bothered, I think I'll add the Merfolk format Amphibious SQ to it just for the sake of clarity...

...Updating the Rough-Skinned Newt Working Draft.

I'm not quite decided on the Environment. The original has "Temperate Savannahs" while in real life they also like woodlands.

How about making it "Temperate plains and forests"?

Apart from that, we just need some flavour text. What think you of...

A tiny brownish salamander about as long as a human hand. It has granular skin and a bright yellow-orange belly.

Rough-skinned newts are poisonous amphibians. The adults spend most of their time on dry land, but usually live close to the freshwater ponds and streams they use for breeding. These newts eat insect and worms much smaller than themselves.

A typical rough-skinned newt is up to six inches long (half of which is tail) and weighs less than an ounce.

COMBAT
A rough-skinned newt might bite an attacker in self defense but is more likely to hide. It mostly relies on its poison to protect itself.

Cleon said:

A typical rough-skinned newt is up to six inches long (half of which is tail) and weighs less than an ounce.

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Hmm, that size is in the right ballpark according to their real life measurements, but it is much too small for a Tiny creature. The SRD Lizard is "perhaps a foot or two in length", not six inches like a rough-skinned newt.

I'm thinking we should downsize it to Diminutive and cut the Dex by 4 so the AC still matches - in my experience newts and salamanders are pretty slow compared to lizards, so Dex 15 is likely too much anyway.

Reducing the Hit Dice by 1 size category to 1/4 d8 would also match the "1-2 hps" of the original creature.

Also, apparently if one bites you the contact can be enough for its "touch poison" to apply, so I fancy adding that to the attack line.

If we include the different Environment I suggested in my previous post, that'd make the following changes:

Newt, Rough-Skinned
Diminutive Animal
Hit Dice: ¼d8 (1 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 15 ft. (3 squares), climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+4 size), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-17
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-5 plus contact poison)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-5 plus contact poison)
Space/Reach: 1 ft./0 ft.
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +8, Climb +8, Hide +14, Listen +3, Move Silently +2, Spot +3, Swim +8
Environment: Temperate plains and forests