Converting True Dragons

Normal Size Advancement

Adult Albino Wyrm (Large Dragon (Cold, Earth), Hit Dice: 7d12+28 (73 hp); Init: +4; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC: 24 (-1 size, +15 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 24; Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+17; Attack: Bite +12 melee (3d6+9) or tail-slap +12 melee (1d8+9); Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (3d6+9) and 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+3) and tail-slap +7 melee (1d8+9); Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with bite, 20 ft. with tail-slap); Special Attacks: Breath weapon [40 ft. cone, 6d6 cold, Ref DC 17], constrict 1d8+9, improved grab, powerful bite, swallow whole [3d6+9 plus 6 acid, gizzard AC 17, 25 hp]; Special Qualities: Blindsense 120 ft., darkvision 120 ft., madness, spell resistance 17; Saves: Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +7; Abilities: Str 23, Dex 10, Con 19, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 15; Skills: Appraise +7, Escape Artist +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Hide +6, Intimidate +10, Jump +16, Listen +10, Move Silently +10, Spot +10, Use Magic Device +10, Swim +14, Survival +2 (+4 underground), Use Rope +0 (+2 binding foes); Feats: Blind-Fight (B), Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Power Attack; CR: 7)

Huge Old Albino Wyrm (Huge Dragon (Cold, Earth), Hit Dice: 15d12+75 (172 hp); Init: +4; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC: 26 (-2 size, +18 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 26; Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+33; Attack: Bite +23 melee (4d6+15/19-20) or tail-slap +23 melee (2d6+15); Full Attack: Bite +23 melee (4d6+15/19-20) and 2 claws +21 melee (1d8+5) and tail-slap +21 melee (2d6+15); Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. (15 ft. with bite, 30 ft. with tail-slap); Special Attacks: Breath weapon [50 ft. cone, 8d6 cold, Ref DC 23], constrict 2d6+15, improved grab, powerful bite, swallow whole [4d6+15 plus 8 acid, gizzard AC 19, 30 hp], tail sweep [30 ft. semicircle, 2d6+15, DC 27]; Special Qualities: Blindsense 120 ft., darkvision 120 ft., madness, spell resistance 17; Saves: Fort +15, Ref +9, Will +11; Abilities: Str 31, Dex 10, Con 23, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 15; Skills: Appraise +17, Escape Artist +16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +17, Hide +10, Intimidate +18, Jump +29, Listen +18, Move Silently +18, Spot +18, Use Magic Device +17, Swim +18, Survival +2 (+4 underground), Use Rope +0 (+2 binding foes); Feats: Blind-Fight (B), Cleave, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Multiattack, Power Attack; CR: 11)

Gargantuan Albino Wyrm (Gargantuan Dragon (Cold, Earth), Hit Dice: 30d12+203 (391 hp); Init: +4; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC: 28 (-4 size, +22 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 28; Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+56; Attack: Bite +40 melee (8d6+21/19-20) or tail-slap +40 melee (4d6+21); Full Attack: Bite +40 melee (8d6+21/19-20) and 2 claws +38 melee (2d6+7) and tail-slap +38 melee (4d6+21); Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft. (20 ft. with bite, 40 ft. with tail-slap); Special Attacks: Breath weapon [60 ft. cone, 11d6 cold, Ref DC 33], constrict 4d6+21, improved grab, powerful bite, swallow whole [6d6+21 plus 8 acid, gizzard AC 21, 40 hp] , tail sweep [40 ft. semicircle, 4d6+21, DC 39]; Special Qualities: Blindsense 120 ft., darkvision 120 ft., madness, spell resistance 17; Saves: Fort +25, Ref +19, Will +20; Abilities: Str 39, Dex 10, Con 27, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 17; Skills: Appraise +37, Escape Artist +33, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +37, Hide +21, Intimidate +36, Jump +51, Listen +33, Move Silently +33, Spot +33, Use Magic Device +36, Swim +22, Survival +2 (+4 underground), Use Rope +0 (+2 binding foes); Feats: Blind-Fight (B), Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Improved Natural Attack (tail-slap), Improved Sunder, Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Reckless Offense; CR: 18)

Will The Dragons Rise Again?

I've been reading throught some monster books and I'm thinking we're missing few dragons, mainly due to their being multiple dragons with the same name.

Sand Dragon
AD&D Sand Dragon from Dragon #134 (1988)
This is not the same as the 3.5E Sand Dragon in Sandstorm (2005). The Dragon version is smarter, less hostile, cannot fly, and has a breath weapon that turns any living thing into sand.

I guess we could call it the "Dune Dragon" to distinguish it from the standard Sand Dragon.

BECMI Gemstone Dragons
There are six "gemstone dragons" in BECMI - amber/brown, crystal, jade, onyx, ruby, sapphire. The Crystalline, Jade, Onyx, and Ruby Dragons are covered, but the remaining two could do with revisiting.

BECMI Amber/Brown Dragon from D&D Master Set (1985)
This dragon is listed in the AD&D2E Mystara Monstrous Compendium (1994) as using the 2E Monster Manual Brown Dragon's stats, but the BECMI original is quite different. It's not a desert-dwelling burrower like the MM Brown Dragon, but lives in all terrains and is basically a Chaotic (e.g. "Evil") counterpart of a Gold Dragon. It has two breath weapons, the flesh-rotting breath of a Jade Dragon plus the object-melting breath of a Ruby Dragon.

They're a lot more powerful than a standard Brown, in other words.

BECMI Sapphire Dragon from D&D Master Set (1985)
In BECMI, a Sapphire Dragon is a Lawful (e.g. "Good") counterpart of a Blue Dragon. They have a breath weapon that vaporizes opponents. Vaporizes as in turns the target into an invisible gaseous form. There's no mention of this Vaporisation having a duration...

Dragon Update Issues
Jade Dragons from the D&D Master Set (1985) have a breath weapon caused a horrible rotting disease as well as damage. Our Enworld conversion just does the damage. Should we update it?

Ruby Dragons from the D&D Master Set (1985) have a breath weapon that melts inanimate objects as well as doing fire damage. Our Enworld conversion just has fire damage plus a 'burn' effect like a Fire Elemental. Should we update it?

Faerûnian Yellow Dragons from the Draconomicon (1990) have a breath weapon that can blind as well as causing damage. Our Enworld conversion just does damage. Also, this dragon has the "signature trick" of creating a sinkhole pit trap like an ant lion, which we mention in the Combat description but don't give any rules for. Should we update it?

Unique Dragons
We've also got a few one-of-a-kind dragons that don't have Enworld conversions.

The Mystaran Dragon Rulers (Moon Dragon, Sun Dragon, Star Dragon, and The Great Dragon) from the D&D Master Set (1985) don't have Enworld or "official" conversions.

Ahi the Steel Dragon from Dragon #62 (1983) doesn't have an Enworld conversion, although his evil twin Rahab the Grey Dragon does.

Whither the Prismatic Dragon

I thought I'd come across another one a few days ago when I noticed that the AD&D version of the Prismatic Dragon from Dungeon #51 and the Monstrous Compendium Annual Four bears little resemblance to the 3E Prismatic Dragon from the Epic Level Handbook.

Then I notice we've already converted it as the "Tourmaline Dragon".

Now why did the CC pick Tourmaline? There's no mention of that stone in the MCA4 entry of the Prismatic Dragon. It does say they eat quartz, so I could see it being a Quartz Dragon, although I'd prefer Spectral Dragon (or possibly Rainbow Dragon) in reference to its many colors.

We should notify [MENTION=9849]Echohawk[/MENTION] about the distinct duplicate dragons! I do guess we should convert those at some point.

As for the updates, I'd want to consider those on a case-by-case basis and go look back at where we discussed them in the thread.

As for the tourmaline dragon, I went back and looked at where we discussed that (starting at post 445 in this thread). RavinRay suggest tourmaline or opal as possibilities because they're multicolored. I actually voted for "aurora dragon." I believe Shade chose tourmaline because some of the original monster text implies that they're gem dragons. I'd hesitate to change that. Oh, and Shade mentioned that "rainbow dragon" (and maybe another possibility) was already taken by another dragon.

freyar said:

We should notify @Echohawk about the distinct duplicate dragons! I do guess we should convert those at some point.

Click to expand...

All the ones I've mentioned are in Echohawk's index, it's just the CC conversions that are short a few.

freyar said:

As for the updates, I'd want to consider those on a case-by-case basis and go look back at where we discussed them in the thread.

Click to expand...

Yes, we ought to do them one-at-a-time, if only to stop things getting confused.

freyar said:

As for the tourmaline dragon, I went back and looked at where we discussed that (starting at post 445 in this thread). RavinRay suggest tourmaline or opal as possibilities because they're multicolored. I actually voted for "aurora dragon." I believe Shade chose tourmaline because some of the original monster text implies that they're gem dragons. I'd hesitate to change that. Oh, and Shade mentioned that "rainbow dragon" (and maybe another possibility) was already taken by another dragon.

Click to expand...

Post 445 eh. I'll have a look...

...It didn't look like we really agreed on it, just threw a few names out and Shade picked one. It seems too late to be thinking about changing the beast's name now, though. Not that we currently can with the CC out of commission.

As for the Rainbow Dragon, it's a conversion of the Rainbow Dragon from Dragon #146. Echohawk's Index entry for the CC Rainbow Dragon says it's a conversion of the Maztican Tlalocoatl (Rain) Dragon, but that's clearly an error.

I compared the CC version's stats and description and they match the Dragon magazine version, not the Maztican one.

I am converting a 1ed adventure to 3.5.
It has a half silver / half cloud dragon in it.
It looks like all they did was combine the abilities of the two.
How would you make a 3.5 Half Silver Dragon / Half Cloud Dragon?
I am using the 3ed Cloud Dragon from CC and the SRD Silver Dragon.


Thanks

Melatuis said:

I am converting a 1ed adventure to 3.5.

It has a half silver / half cloud dragon in it.

It looks like all they did was combine the abilities of the two.

Click to expand...

That wouldn't be Aryzon Silvercloud by any chance, would it?

Melatuis said:

How would you make a 3.5 Half Silver Dragon / Half Cloud Dragon?
I am using the 3ed Cloud Dragon from CC and the SRD Silver Dragon.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Well it's rules-legal to apply a Silver Half-Dragon template to a Cloud Dragon of the desired age, but that wouldn't work terribly well - the resulting creature wouldn't get many abilities from the "Silver Side" of its heritage, and its Half-Silver breath weapon likely does a lot less damage than its Cloud side.

I'd be more inclined to average the stats of two dragons of the same age then pick-and-mix from their abilities. It'll likely end up a lot closer to the original monster.

If it is Aryzon Silvercloud you're talking about, do you really need to completely stat him out? It's unlikely the PCs will actually fight him.

Yes it he. I am stating him up becauese I like doing dragons.
I was thinking of averaging the stats, but all the stats except STR are the same..
The Cloud dragon STR stars stronger and ends weaker, so I am using all the Silver Dragons Stats.
The problem I have is that a Silver Dragon goes from Small to Colossal (Great Wyrm).
The Cloud Dragon goes from Large to Colossal (Very old, Ancient, Wyrm, Great Wyrm).
What I did was use the Red Dragon size progression making Wyrmling Medium, and Wyrm and Great Wyrm Colossal.

Thanks for the input.

Melatuis said:

Yes it he. I am stating him up becauese I like doing dragons.
I was thinking of averaging the stats, but all the stats except STR are the same..
The Cloud dragon STR stars stronger and ends weaker, so I am using all the Silver Dragons Stats.
The problem I have is that a Silver Dragon goes from Small to Colossal (Great Wyrm).
The Cloud Dragon goes from Large to Colossal (Very old, Ancient, Wyrm, Great Wyrm).
What I did was use the Red Dragon size progression making Wyrmling Medium, and Wyrm and Great Wyrm Colossal.

Thanks for the input.

Click to expand...

Well Silvercloud's original entry says he's a Mature Adult and gives him 17 HD. Mature Adult is +3 HD in 2nd edition, meaning he's got a Cloud Dragon's base HD of 14.

However, his size of "G (82′ long, 36′ tail)" matches a Mature Silver's 85-96′ plus 37-43′ tail. That suggests he uses the same size progressions as a Silver Dragon. He's certainly a lot smaller than a mature Cloud Dragon (102-117′ plus 44-51′ tail).

In 3E terms that suggests a mature Cloud/Silver cross will be Huge like a Mature Silver rather than Gargantuan like a mature Cloud Dragon.

A 3E Mature Red is also Huge size so using a Red Dragon size progression could work, but it's worth noting that Reds are significantly bigger than Silvers in 2E, in which a Mature Red is 99-118′ plus 87-106′ tail - that's even longer than the equivalently aged Cloud Dragon!

Cheesegreeting has noticed that the Crow's Nest Dragonet is missing a breath weapon.

According to its original entry, these little fellows can breathe a fog cloud to help escape enemies.

That's another thing for the "Dragons to do" list.

Which reminds me, as well as the Mystaran Amber we don't have a conversion for the Expert Set Sea Dragon. There's one of those on Vaults of Pandius, so there seems to be no hurry for it.

I'd like to do the Dragon magazine #134 Sand Dragon first.