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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9265756" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Okay well, no answer on "does 'products' mean 'books'?" question, so I'm going to just proceed with "yes," based on the other stuff said in the OP.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, to begin with, mechanical structure changes:</p><p>[SPOILER="Mechanics Updates/Changes"]</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Average out the gap between 4e math and 5e math. That is, 4e expected (very very roughly) +30 over 30 levels to core basic things like attack rolls, half of which came from the half-level bonus. 5e expects roughly +11 over 20 levels, half of which comes from Proficiency, aka "quarter-level bonus + 1". Target is thus (30+16.5)/2 = +23.25 (call it 23) over 30 levels. This is a hair above 3/4. Start with Proficiency scaling at 1/3 level; this nets us +10 of the +23. Let weapons scale up at +1 every 5ish levels, so that's another +6. That leaves a total of +7 remaining. 4e's existing ability score increases (+1 to two at 4, 8, 14, 18, etc.; and +1 to all at 11 and 21) give a total of +4, and the remainder can come from a properly-integrated innate "Expertise Feat" benefit, for a grand total of +23 as expected, spread out over 30 levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cull powers and feats. A lot, though not as much as some folks think.* 4e has good feats and powers...in a sea of mediocre to bad ones that can be removed without remorse. Cull classes only as necessary, e.g. Seeker is merged into Ranger, Runepriest into Cleric, etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em>Personally</em>, I prefer tying role to class rather than subclass, but folks seem to value that, so I guess I will bow to the public perception on that even if I consider it fundamentally bad design. <em>Start off</em> with subclasses that have the expected builds, and explicitly announce, preview, and playtest subclasses that intentionally go in other directions (damage-focused Fighters, healing-focused Paladins, defense-focused Rogues, etc.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Iterate on and heavily playtest skill challenge rules. Provide excellent examples and advice for how to run a spectrum of stuff--from individual one-off skills to slightly more involved but still individual skill checks to semi-systemized stuff to full-blown skill challenges, and actually teach techniques for making ALL of those things interesting in contexts appropriate for each approach.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Surges are back, but called "Hit Dice" because the people who get fanny-finagled about design stuff tend to care WAY more about names and labels than about the actual underlying mechanics.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The old Backgrounds and Themes are absorbed into simple, relatively streamlined (and easy to draft/homebrew) "Heroic Origins," so that the whole system becomes HOPPED: Heroic Origin, Paragon Path, Epic Destiny. These can now be more tightly integrated with one another (if the table desires to), allowing for a mechanical representation of going through a hero's journey.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weapons are reworked, very lightly, to provide a more systematic experience, including rules for creating your own weapons with different properties. (I have like 80% of a "build your own weapon" system written up, someday I'll post it on here.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rituals are very VERY <strong><em>VERY</em></strong> heavily playtested with a focus on UX and presentation, to make sure it's communicated just how important, useful, flexible, and accessible they are.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">NOVICE LEVELS!!! I cannot stress this enough. Well-made, useful, <em>enjoyable</em> novice levels for the folks who want them, with extensible rules (probably cribbing from 13th Age's incremental advancement rules) so that these "novice levels" can fill in the jumps between regular levels too, allowing DMs to spool out advancement nearly without limit if they so choose.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Inherent bonuses" rules in the DMG as a specifically favored option for (a) low-magic games, (b) games where treasure is meant to be special and rare, or (c) games where having a "signature weapon" or the like is more desirable than changing weapons regularly.</li> </ul><p>* TL;DR: Folks don't realize the combinatoric explosion that comes from having classes. Each individual (sub)class may only have a tiny handful of powers to consider at any given point, making the choices very simple, but when you integrate that over 18-24 classes, 30 levels, multiple builds per subclass, multiple subclasses per class? Yeah, it adds up, a <em>lot</em>.[/SPOILER]</p><p>From there, non-mechanical additional stuff:</p><p>[SPOILER="other important content"]</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Launched <em>simultaneously</em> with the initial books, there is a fully-functional, homebrew-enabled, easy-to-use VTT, character creator, monster creator, encounter builder, and campaign planner/character journal/etc. application. It needs to have multiple levels of graphical fidelity (e.g. simple 2D, advanced 2.5D, simple 3D, advanced/high-fidelity 3D). Potentially the high-end sub makes ues of Larian's stuff so you can literally run virtual versions of your combats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The above tools will allow reasonably-limited free usage (without direct homebrew capability), so long as the user is logged in. Anything already created while subbed is still usable without the sub, but you can't modify anything that contains content depending on a subscription.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The VTT will include integration for voice communication (such as Discord), streaming/recording software (such as XSplit) and streaming platforms (such as Twitch), and other relevant third-party things.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Anything submitted to the equivalent of "DM's Guild" can be drafted up (by the submitter) for official integration into the character/monster/etc. creator. Effectively, this does all of the "enter the data into the sheet" stuff for the user, in advance. This helps support 3PP creators who want to reach an audience that has good reason to use their 3PP stuff. Users do not need to be subscribed to use 3PP they've purchased, but they cannot modify further without a sub (except</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Individual subs would be less expensive, but couldn't be shared. DM subs would slightly more expensive (e.g. the difference between $10 and $15 or whatever), but DMs may share their subscription with up to twelve players (to account for even unusually large groups), who can create charactres freely using any content the DM-subscriber possesses, while keeping the characters actually attached to their personal account.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The books themselves will go through EXTENSIVE review for their user experience, presentation, and aesthetics. Production values must be absolutely top-notch, and the books should <em>feel</em> good to read. While actual rules-text sections should be focused, specific, and unambiguous, there should be lots of good fluff sprinkled liberally over anything that isn't pure crunch.</li> </ul><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p>Alright! Finally, with that out of the way, let's get to the important part: BOOKS. Core three right out the gate, simultaneous: PHB, DMG, MM. </p><p></p><p>PHB aims to be highly inclusive, featuring<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/why-is-the-assassin-rpgue.702455/post-9260085" target="_blank"> sixteen different classes</a> (all those from 5e, plus Warlord, Alchemist, and "Machinist"--noting that I'm not attached to that name). DMG is written first and foremost to help the DM have the easiest time possible doing their job, and is thus chock-full of advice and guidance, useful examples, and thoroughly-tested, well-made tools for a host of things a DM might want to do, particularly encounter design and campaign setting construction. MM is a "greatest hits" catalogue, while also covering ecology and thematics.</p><p></p><p>The next two books would be kinda-sorta-vaguely like the 5e approach of an "all in one" book, but in this case, one focused on presenting a classic, beloved setting that already had 4e integration (Eberron)...and the other a setting-framework that <em>never got</em> its own book, Points of Light. They would combine player options, DM options, treasure, bestiary, and general setting overview stuff, all in one focused book. More specific subsidiary books can come after. Each would also add at least two new classes. The Eberron Enchiridion would offer Swordmage and Assassin, reflecting the high-magic, high-intrigue nature of its setting, alongside new subclass/build/power/feat/etc. options for the existing classes. The Points of Light book (name pending!) would offer Shaman and Avenger, as their lore is particularly consonant with the lore of that setting-framework.</p><p></p><p>There would also be a public announcement of the first major publication to follow: Dark Sun, to be paired with the Psion and Warden classes (since DS is so linked to psionics and the savagery of a dying land), and a complete inventory of extra setting-specific subclass options for every PHB class, "gritty survival" mechanics, ways to run "nastier" monsters, and tips and advice on how to run dark, "adult" themed campaigns with content that might not be for all groups. This would get extensive public playtesting. </p><p></p><p>The next major publication to come after would be Planescape-focused (featuring the Summoner and Invoker classes and rules for both the existing Factions and ways to build your own, both for Planescape and for homebrew settings or as a bolt-on to other, existing settings), followed by Greyhawk (no new classes, but "old school"-themed options, and extensive guidance for how to run a no-holds-barred, OSR-style "hardcore" game using this system), followed by Mystara (which I don't know enough about to say what character options, DM advice, setting materials, etc. might be added there, but I'm sure folks could tell me), followed by Ravenloft (with no new classes, but rules for lycanthropy, vampirism, and other "cursed with awesome" type deals, alongside the expected "Domains of Dread" content and advice for how to run horror campaigns), followed by Dragonlance (with stuff specific to it, and also guidance on how to run DL-like campaigns-as-novels with scripted elements and finding ways to manage the probabilistic nature of dice.)</p><p></p><p>Between these major campaign-setting releases, perhaps offering smaller, specific subsets of the Forgotten Realms, e.g. Kara-Tur, Al Qadim, the Sword Coast, etc., with fewer distinct options therein, but lots of ways to inject flavor and fun. Basically, structure the BIG books around settings, because people <em>like</em> settings, while including useful rules, advice, and materials for general <em>kinds</em> of gaming, not just stuff specific to that one campaign setting. That way, while each book would always get a lot of attention from fans of that specific setting, anyone interested in the overall tone, theme, or high concept of that setting can still get much use from it. Then structure the "little" books around a more focused slice of the setting everyone already knows something about, to make use of its perennial popularity without making it the only game in town. That could also be where official "Plane Shift" stuff goes, for when they want to capitalize on that sweet, sweet MtG crossover value.</p><p></p><p>Finally, have Organized Play themes every 12-24 months. That is, put out one of these new "big" books each year-or-so, alongside whatever smaller/more specific supplements (e.g. new bestiaries, "Treasure Trove" books, "Plane Shift" documents, premade battle maps, minis, playtest stuff, etc.)--and each new book launch would correspond with a new season of Organized Play. That season's book is a freebie, plus the PHB, and one other supplement of choice. This way, each new release gives a theme and concept to the year's official games, and lets folks play through a fun experience in one world before moving on to something new (or, if they prefer, continuing their adventures in the old one!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9265756, member: 6790260"] Okay well, no answer on "does 'products' mean 'books'?" question, so I'm going to just proceed with "yes," based on the other stuff said in the OP. So, to begin with, mechanical structure changes: [SPOILER="Mechanics Updates/Changes"] [LIST] [*]Average out the gap between 4e math and 5e math. That is, 4e expected (very very roughly) +30 over 30 levels to core basic things like attack rolls, half of which came from the half-level bonus. 5e expects roughly +11 over 20 levels, half of which comes from Proficiency, aka "quarter-level bonus + 1". Target is thus (30+16.5)/2 = +23.25 (call it 23) over 30 levels. This is a hair above 3/4. Start with Proficiency scaling at 1/3 level; this nets us +10 of the +23. Let weapons scale up at +1 every 5ish levels, so that's another +6. That leaves a total of +7 remaining. 4e's existing ability score increases (+1 to two at 4, 8, 14, 18, etc.; and +1 to all at 11 and 21) give a total of +4, and the remainder can come from a properly-integrated innate "Expertise Feat" benefit, for a grand total of +23 as expected, spread out over 30 levels. [*]Cull powers and feats. A lot, though not as much as some folks think.* 4e has good feats and powers...in a sea of mediocre to bad ones that can be removed without remorse. Cull classes only as necessary, e.g. Seeker is merged into Ranger, Runepriest into Cleric, etc. [*][I]Personally[/I], I prefer tying role to class rather than subclass, but folks seem to value that, so I guess I will bow to the public perception on that even if I consider it fundamentally bad design. [I]Start off[/I] with subclasses that have the expected builds, and explicitly announce, preview, and playtest subclasses that intentionally go in other directions (damage-focused Fighters, healing-focused Paladins, defense-focused Rogues, etc.) [*]Iterate on and heavily playtest skill challenge rules. Provide excellent examples and advice for how to run a spectrum of stuff--from individual one-off skills to slightly more involved but still individual skill checks to semi-systemized stuff to full-blown skill challenges, and actually teach techniques for making ALL of those things interesting in contexts appropriate for each approach. [*]Surges are back, but called "Hit Dice" because the people who get fanny-finagled about design stuff tend to care WAY more about names and labels than about the actual underlying mechanics. [*]The old Backgrounds and Themes are absorbed into simple, relatively streamlined (and easy to draft/homebrew) "Heroic Origins," so that the whole system becomes HOPPED: Heroic Origin, Paragon Path, Epic Destiny. These can now be more tightly integrated with one another (if the table desires to), allowing for a mechanical representation of going through a hero's journey. [*]Weapons are reworked, very lightly, to provide a more systematic experience, including rules for creating your own weapons with different properties. (I have like 80% of a "build your own weapon" system written up, someday I'll post it on here.) [*]Rituals are very VERY [B][I]VERY[/I][/B] heavily playtested with a focus on UX and presentation, to make sure it's communicated just how important, useful, flexible, and accessible they are. [*]NOVICE LEVELS!!! I cannot stress this enough. Well-made, useful, [I]enjoyable[/I] novice levels for the folks who want them, with extensible rules (probably cribbing from 13th Age's incremental advancement rules) so that these "novice levels" can fill in the jumps between regular levels too, allowing DMs to spool out advancement nearly without limit if they so choose. [*]"Inherent bonuses" rules in the DMG as a specifically favored option for (a) low-magic games, (b) games where treasure is meant to be special and rare, or (c) games where having a "signature weapon" or the like is more desirable than changing weapons regularly. [/LIST] * TL;DR: Folks don't realize the combinatoric explosion that comes from having classes. Each individual (sub)class may only have a tiny handful of powers to consider at any given point, making the choices very simple, but when you integrate that over 18-24 classes, 30 levels, multiple builds per subclass, multiple subclasses per class? Yeah, it adds up, a [I]lot[/I].[/SPOILER] From there, non-mechanical additional stuff: [SPOILER="other important content"] [LIST] [*]Launched [I]simultaneously[/I] with the initial books, there is a fully-functional, homebrew-enabled, easy-to-use VTT, character creator, monster creator, encounter builder, and campaign planner/character journal/etc. application. It needs to have multiple levels of graphical fidelity (e.g. simple 2D, advanced 2.5D, simple 3D, advanced/high-fidelity 3D). Potentially the high-end sub makes ues of Larian's stuff so you can literally run virtual versions of your combats. [*]The above tools will allow reasonably-limited free usage (without direct homebrew capability), so long as the user is logged in. Anything already created while subbed is still usable without the sub, but you can't modify anything that contains content depending on a subscription. [*]The VTT will include integration for voice communication (such as Discord), streaming/recording software (such as XSplit) and streaming platforms (such as Twitch), and other relevant third-party things. [*]Anything submitted to the equivalent of "DM's Guild" can be drafted up (by the submitter) for official integration into the character/monster/etc. creator. Effectively, this does all of the "enter the data into the sheet" stuff for the user, in advance. This helps support 3PP creators who want to reach an audience that has good reason to use their 3PP stuff. Users do not need to be subscribed to use 3PP they've purchased, but they cannot modify further without a sub (except [*]Individual subs would be less expensive, but couldn't be shared. DM subs would slightly more expensive (e.g. the difference between $10 and $15 or whatever), but DMs may share their subscription with up to twelve players (to account for even unusually large groups), who can create charactres freely using any content the DM-subscriber possesses, while keeping the characters actually attached to their personal account. [*]The books themselves will go through EXTENSIVE review for their user experience, presentation, and aesthetics. Production values must be absolutely top-notch, and the books should [I]feel[/I] good to read. While actual rules-text sections should be focused, specific, and unambiguous, there should be lots of good fluff sprinkled liberally over anything that isn't pure crunch. [/LIST] [/SPOILER] Alright! Finally, with that out of the way, let's get to the important part: BOOKS. Core three right out the gate, simultaneous: PHB, DMG, MM. PHB aims to be highly inclusive, featuring[URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/why-is-the-assassin-rpgue.702455/post-9260085'] sixteen different classes[/URL] (all those from 5e, plus Warlord, Alchemist, and "Machinist"--noting that I'm not attached to that name). DMG is written first and foremost to help the DM have the easiest time possible doing their job, and is thus chock-full of advice and guidance, useful examples, and thoroughly-tested, well-made tools for a host of things a DM might want to do, particularly encounter design and campaign setting construction. MM is a "greatest hits" catalogue, while also covering ecology and thematics. The next two books would be kinda-sorta-vaguely like the 5e approach of an "all in one" book, but in this case, one focused on presenting a classic, beloved setting that already had 4e integration (Eberron)...and the other a setting-framework that [I]never got[/I] its own book, Points of Light. They would combine player options, DM options, treasure, bestiary, and general setting overview stuff, all in one focused book. More specific subsidiary books can come after. Each would also add at least two new classes. The Eberron Enchiridion would offer Swordmage and Assassin, reflecting the high-magic, high-intrigue nature of its setting, alongside new subclass/build/power/feat/etc. options for the existing classes. The Points of Light book (name pending!) would offer Shaman and Avenger, as their lore is particularly consonant with the lore of that setting-framework. There would also be a public announcement of the first major publication to follow: Dark Sun, to be paired with the Psion and Warden classes (since DS is so linked to psionics and the savagery of a dying land), and a complete inventory of extra setting-specific subclass options for every PHB class, "gritty survival" mechanics, ways to run "nastier" monsters, and tips and advice on how to run dark, "adult" themed campaigns with content that might not be for all groups. This would get extensive public playtesting. The next major publication to come after would be Planescape-focused (featuring the Summoner and Invoker classes and rules for both the existing Factions and ways to build your own, both for Planescape and for homebrew settings or as a bolt-on to other, existing settings), followed by Greyhawk (no new classes, but "old school"-themed options, and extensive guidance for how to run a no-holds-barred, OSR-style "hardcore" game using this system), followed by Mystara (which I don't know enough about to say what character options, DM advice, setting materials, etc. might be added there, but I'm sure folks could tell me), followed by Ravenloft (with no new classes, but rules for lycanthropy, vampirism, and other "cursed with awesome" type deals, alongside the expected "Domains of Dread" content and advice for how to run horror campaigns), followed by Dragonlance (with stuff specific to it, and also guidance on how to run DL-like campaigns-as-novels with scripted elements and finding ways to manage the probabilistic nature of dice.) Between these major campaign-setting releases, perhaps offering smaller, specific subsets of the Forgotten Realms, e.g. Kara-Tur, Al Qadim, the Sword Coast, etc., with fewer distinct options therein, but lots of ways to inject flavor and fun. Basically, structure the BIG books around settings, because people [I]like[/I] settings, while including useful rules, advice, and materials for general [I]kinds[/I] of gaming, not just stuff specific to that one campaign setting. That way, while each book would always get a lot of attention from fans of that specific setting, anyone interested in the overall tone, theme, or high concept of that setting can still get much use from it. Then structure the "little" books around a more focused slice of the setting everyone already knows something about, to make use of its perennial popularity without making it the only game in town. That could also be where official "Plane Shift" stuff goes, for when they want to capitalize on that sweet, sweet MtG crossover value. Finally, have Organized Play themes every 12-24 months. That is, put out one of these new "big" books each year-or-so, alongside whatever smaller/more specific supplements (e.g. new bestiaries, "Treasure Trove" books, "Plane Shift" documents, premade battle maps, minis, playtest stuff, etc.)--and each new book launch would correspond with a new season of Organized Play. That season's book is a freebie, plus the PHB, and one other supplement of choice. This way, each new release gives a theme and concept to the year's official games, and lets folks play through a fun experience in one world before moving on to something new (or, if they prefer, continuing their adventures in the old one!) [/QUOTE]
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