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Worlds of Design: The Price of Advancement
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<blockquote data-quote="evildmguy" data-source="post: 8853514" data-attributes="member: 6092"><p>Having played since 1E with training rules, I have since rejected them. For DND or other level based games, I describe most characters as having had training or practice with whatever it is they do. When the character gets enough xp to advance, I only require a long rest or good night's sleep for them to advance the next morning. </p><p></p><p>This is because having played 1E where a character, or characters, gained enough xp to advance in the middle of a dungeon and want to take everyone back to the city, not the closest town but city, where they could train derailed the whole adventure. Sure, some players today might want to immediately rest to gain the benefits but understand having to wait a bit. </p><p></p><p>I see all characters having passive downtime to practice, whether spells or arms, and I do see it as a progression, even if the game has it happen all at once. The other reason is that I have played a fair number of skill based systems (mostly Alternity, Shadowrun, and WoD games) and found that players felt like their characters were static when skills only progress one point/level/rank at a time. It took me doing the same combat we did, as a mock exercise, to show them how much better their characters were seven months into playing. They were shocked how much easier that fight was. </p><p></p><p>Speaking of skill based systems, I do try and keep players focused on their concept. If they learn skills within that concept, I don't have them require training. (Most skill based systems seem to lean to modern and SciFi not that I haven't used Alternity for fantasy.) If they can explain a new skill in the context of their concept, I might require downtime of a few days or week to learn the new skill but no cost just time. It's only when they try and take a skill completely outside their concept and they haven't tried to set it up in play that I would require training costing time and money. </p><p></p><p>I agree with [USER=21229]@Chaderick[/USER] in that now we are older, the systems handle things better. Back in 1E/2E DND when it was discouraged to have magic shops and for characters to find magic, they didn't have much else to use gold on. I think training was just the designer's way to keep their wealth down as well as someplace to use gold. Now that characters (at least in my PF1/LU) games can make items and have costs there, they have reason to get gold and things to use it on, so we don't worry as much about training. </p><p></p><p>Notes: As I wrote this and thought about it, I'm almost sorry that the (PF1) Barbarian doesn't have the next lower BAB progression with class bonuses in weapon groups that make up for it. I see them as raw fury, while the top BAB does indicate training to me. </p><p></p><p>Thanks for the good article and discussion!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evildmguy, post: 8853514, member: 6092"] Having played since 1E with training rules, I have since rejected them. For DND or other level based games, I describe most characters as having had training or practice with whatever it is they do. When the character gets enough xp to advance, I only require a long rest or good night's sleep for them to advance the next morning. This is because having played 1E where a character, or characters, gained enough xp to advance in the middle of a dungeon and want to take everyone back to the city, not the closest town but city, where they could train derailed the whole adventure. Sure, some players today might want to immediately rest to gain the benefits but understand having to wait a bit. I see all characters having passive downtime to practice, whether spells or arms, and I do see it as a progression, even if the game has it happen all at once. The other reason is that I have played a fair number of skill based systems (mostly Alternity, Shadowrun, and WoD games) and found that players felt like their characters were static when skills only progress one point/level/rank at a time. It took me doing the same combat we did, as a mock exercise, to show them how much better their characters were seven months into playing. They were shocked how much easier that fight was. Speaking of skill based systems, I do try and keep players focused on their concept. If they learn skills within that concept, I don't have them require training. (Most skill based systems seem to lean to modern and SciFi not that I haven't used Alternity for fantasy.) If they can explain a new skill in the context of their concept, I might require downtime of a few days or week to learn the new skill but no cost just time. It's only when they try and take a skill completely outside their concept and they haven't tried to set it up in play that I would require training costing time and money. I agree with [USER=21229]@Chaderick[/USER] in that now we are older, the systems handle things better. Back in 1E/2E DND when it was discouraged to have magic shops and for characters to find magic, they didn't have much else to use gold on. I think training was just the designer's way to keep their wealth down as well as someplace to use gold. Now that characters (at least in my PF1/LU) games can make items and have costs there, they have reason to get gold and things to use it on, so we don't worry as much about training. Notes: As I wrote this and thought about it, I'm almost sorry that the (PF1) Barbarian doesn't have the next lower BAB progression with class bonuses in weapon groups that make up for it. I see them as raw fury, while the top BAB does indicate training to me. Thanks for the good article and discussion! [/QUOTE]
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