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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?
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<blockquote data-quote="noodohs" data-source="post: 9303242" data-attributes="member: 7033037"><p>Yes, I meant planetar. It was late, my bad. I get very frustrated with the anti-PC flight people because the restrictions they want to impose are so punishing as to make me not even want to bother, which just feels like... why? Have you actually let players just have flight without those restrictions to see if anything actually breaks? My other problem is when the PC flight options come from heritages that have been adopted from monster stat blocks, but at least for o5e, the playable version has been heavily nerfed, which is just so stupid. If you have to nerf it (or otherwise alter its basic physiology) to make it playable, then it just shouldn't be playable. I don't know if A5e has this problem as much, but it definitely has a notable lack of good flight options and the Homebrew and Hacking supplement places way, way too much weight on player flight when creating a heritage.</p><p></p><p>Instead of placing obnoxious restrictions on player flight because 5% of players might possibly abuse it, I think it would be better if it was just allowed, but with a section in Trials & Treasures dedicated to advice on dealing with it. Things like:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">8 ft ceilings for indoor spaces. This isn't even restrictive, this is just how 99% of ceilings are, with the exceptions primarily being mansions, seats of power, and places of worship. This isn't a perfect solution, you can still fly over pitfall traps, but it does remove any combat benefit to flight as you'd always be within melee reach. Glyphs of warding also exist and if you treat them like a proximity mine (which you can), flying creatures can still trigger them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you're worried about players just flying over walls, don't forget to place guards to protect those walls (the walls are there to protect something, right?). In a world where flying creatures are a known concern, it's reasonable for them to have bows, nets, or to have spellcasters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Remember to also let players have fun and sometimes put things down that you know they can just bypass so they feel good about their choices. You can also use this to your advantage so they become overconfident if you feel like sneaking something on them later.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Think about the type of game you are playing. In a roleplay-heavy game like I typically play, there are so few opportunities for flight to even be relevant let alone break anything. On the flip side, if you're running gritty realism, then yeah, maybe flight doesn't make sense at all.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Certainly when designing flying heritages, think about wingspan. I had an aasimar paladin who later became part angel and got real wings, but in order to carry not just his size but also his weight, those wings were like 20 feet. They simply weren't practical anywhere but outdoors and they required custom armor, clothing, etc. Magical flight... breaks a lot of these and probably just shouldn't be a thing for PCs, but maybe that's just me.</li> </ul><p>I understand (believe me I do) that having written rules for things helps at tables where certain players are prone to exploiting rules and so just having suggestions like this doesn't always work, but it also feels like the percentage of people who would actually do that is so very, very small and we're still designing around them. Drags everyone else down.</p><p></p><p>Back to the OP's original point, I know that in at least one case, the restrictions placed on flight were just for realism. Most real flying creatures can't hover for long, if at all, so placing restrictions on how long they can hover makes sense. Similarly, limiting how heavy of armor they can wear makes sense not just in terms of weight (though weight is already covered by strength score) but also mobility. So there are some good reasons to restrict flight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="noodohs, post: 9303242, member: 7033037"] Yes, I meant planetar. It was late, my bad. I get very frustrated with the anti-PC flight people because the restrictions they want to impose are so punishing as to make me not even want to bother, which just feels like... why? Have you actually let players just have flight without those restrictions to see if anything actually breaks? My other problem is when the PC flight options come from heritages that have been adopted from monster stat blocks, but at least for o5e, the playable version has been heavily nerfed, which is just so stupid. If you have to nerf it (or otherwise alter its basic physiology) to make it playable, then it just shouldn't be playable. I don't know if A5e has this problem as much, but it definitely has a notable lack of good flight options and the Homebrew and Hacking supplement places way, way too much weight on player flight when creating a heritage. Instead of placing obnoxious restrictions on player flight because 5% of players might possibly abuse it, I think it would be better if it was just allowed, but with a section in Trials & Treasures dedicated to advice on dealing with it. Things like: [LIST] [*]8 ft ceilings for indoor spaces. This isn't even restrictive, this is just how 99% of ceilings are, with the exceptions primarily being mansions, seats of power, and places of worship. This isn't a perfect solution, you can still fly over pitfall traps, but it does remove any combat benefit to flight as you'd always be within melee reach. Glyphs of warding also exist and if you treat them like a proximity mine (which you can), flying creatures can still trigger them. [*]If you're worried about players just flying over walls, don't forget to place guards to protect those walls (the walls are there to protect something, right?). In a world where flying creatures are a known concern, it's reasonable for them to have bows, nets, or to have spellcasters. [*]Remember to also let players have fun and sometimes put things down that you know they can just bypass so they feel good about their choices. You can also use this to your advantage so they become overconfident if you feel like sneaking something on them later. [*]Think about the type of game you are playing. In a roleplay-heavy game like I typically play, there are so few opportunities for flight to even be relevant let alone break anything. On the flip side, if you're running gritty realism, then yeah, maybe flight doesn't make sense at all. [*]Certainly when designing flying heritages, think about wingspan. I had an aasimar paladin who later became part angel and got real wings, but in order to carry not just his size but also his weight, those wings were like 20 feet. They simply weren't practical anywhere but outdoors and they required custom armor, clothing, etc. Magical flight... breaks a lot of these and probably just shouldn't be a thing for PCs, but maybe that's just me. [/LIST] I understand (believe me I do) that having written rules for things helps at tables where certain players are prone to exploiting rules and so just having suggestions like this doesn't always work, but it also feels like the percentage of people who would actually do that is so very, very small and we're still designing around them. Drags everyone else down. Back to the OP's original point, I know that in at least one case, the restrictions placed on flight were just for realism. Most real flying creatures can't hover for long, if at all, so placing restrictions on how long they can hover makes sense. Similarly, limiting how heavy of armor they can wear makes sense not just in terms of weight (though weight is already covered by strength score) but also mobility. So there are some good reasons to restrict flight. [/QUOTE]
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Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?
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