Whips and Strength

[Malin Genie]

A whip (or whip dagger) is considered a projectile (not a thrown weapon.)

Under the entry for Strength in the PHB it says that Strength modifiers are applied to thrown weapon damage, and a Strength penalty (but not a bonus) is applied to damage with bows and slings (except for mighty bows.) It doesn't mention other projectiles.

So as far as I can tell, my halfling Bard won't have to apply her Strength penalty to damage with a whip or whip dagger (which sort of makes sense to me - the damage is based on the speed generated at the whip tip, not the wielder's muscles...)

Or is there a rule somewhere that I have missed that says Strength penalty does apply?

 

[Crothian]

Well, considering that they created mighty whips too allow Strength bonuses to be added, I would have to say it's pretty clear that normal whips do not.

 

[Christian]

Not necessarily relevant, Crothian. There are apparently three kinds of ranged weapons:

1) Ranged weapons which apply strength bonuses and penalties. Thrown weapons, mighty composite bows, mighty whip daggers.

2) Ranged weapons which apply only strength penalties. Bows, slings.

3) Ranged weapons which apply neither strength bonuses nor penalties. Crossbows.

So, which category do normal whips belong in? Obviously not category 1), or there'd be no need for mighty whips. One could argue by analogy that as regular bows (kind 2) are to mighty bows (kind 1), so are regular whips (kind 2) to mighty whips (kind 1). But I think that there's no reason to suppose whips take a Strength penalty to damage. A) There's not necessarily any validity to analogies, and B) the PH could quite easily have listed 'whips' with the 'bows and slings' under the Strength section as weapons that take a Strength penalty to damage, but it did not. My conclusion is that whips do not take such a penalty. (And really, they hardly do any damn damage anyway. Please! )

 

[Malin Genie]

Well, considering that they created mighty whips too allow Strength bonuses to be added, I would have to say it's pretty clear that normal whips do not.

Sorry, just to clarify - I know that Strength bonuses don't apply to (non-mighty) whips. What I was asking about was Strength penalties.

Originally posted by Christian
(And really, they hardly do any damn damage anyway. Please! )

I'm not sure if you own Sword and Fist or not, but Whip Dagger with Point Blank Shot and Bardsong bonus does very respectable damage - and, unlike a crossbow, can be used with iterative attacks and even with Rapid Shot. Of course the 15ft maximum range is slightly less than that of a crossbow

 

[Zhure]

From the SRD9emphasis added):

"Whip: The whip deals subdual damage. It deals no damage to any creature with even a +1 armor bonus or at least a +3 natural armor bonus. Although the whip is kept in hand, treat it as a projectile weapon with a maximum range of 15 feet and no range penalties."

"Apply a character's Strength bonus to damage dealt by thrown weapons but not to damage dealt by projectile weapons (except for mighty composite shortbows or longbows)."

Thus, one does not apply a STR bonus to damage dealt by whips.

As for a STR penalty, I would assume it is applied the same as the other projectile weapons and the rule was merely written poorly.

-edit- I just checked Sword & Fist and didn't see any clarifications there, either.
Greg

 

[ouini]

Whip penalty

Unless someone comes up with a clarification, I'd say don't apply a strength penalty.

The whip and the net are the most exotic of the exotic weapons, rules-wise. Even though the whip is neat-o as a tactical weapon, it's inferior to other ranged weapons in a lot of ways. Applying a strength penalty -- which isn't even listed in the rules -- just seems to be going out of your way to add insult to injury.

My old Halfling Bard (R.I.P.) knew the whip was useless for damage, but practically fell over himself to be in situations where he could use the whip to disarm someone.