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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9315681" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Right, something like the equipment costs in AD&D takes effect basically once, at level 1 when you roll up your PC. You get some random amount of gold and part of the 'survive level 1' filter is to allocate your gold pieces intelligently in order to end up with a good enough AC and the optimum equipment to survive whatever the apparent challenge is. Then maybe you play a bit of a resource game for the first couple of adventures where your supplies might 'run out', or if you get a bit lucky you might hire a few minions to up your survival odds. Given that the GM MUST deliver several 1000 GP if the party is to advance (if you play by the stock rules) then by level 2 or so everyone will be in plate armor, decked with shields, helmets, auxiliary missile weapons, healing potions, etc. as required. IME at that point mundane equipment was relegated to a sort of irrelevant zone on your character sheet where it was just assumed you restocked anything you actually bothered to use up in play without needing to actually go through the motions. </p><p></p><p>But, like most trad sim subsystems it would potentially raise its head periodically. The GM could, in the midst of some epic journey or something, suddenly spring 'Wilderness Survival Guide' on the party and insist on punishing them for not packing 4 large tents, firewood, rain gear, etc. There was also kind of a latent almost TB2-like survival game that COULD theoretically be enacted with rules like that, if the GM wanted to completely rework money and XP (2e does this, but oddly also elides most of the survival type rules). It isn't a very functional subsystem though, clearly more suited to use as a casual GM gotcha mechanism as opposed to a real hard sub-game. </p><p></p><p>The only game I remember playing any of that actually has serious survivalist sim rules is Aftermath. That was not really a particularly fun game though IME. </p><p></p><p>I would say, in terms of Neo-Trad games, you would be unlikely to see these sorts of subsystems deployed. It would be a lot more likely to see more abstract ones along the lines of BitD's loadout system. </p><p></p><p>[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] I actually liked the way BitD kind of veers neo-tradish towards the end. I think you COULD push back on that, but it would necessitate kind of just going beyond the formal resolution system. Still, the characters get pretty distinctive and well-defined at a certain point such that some element of character-as-envisaged driving of play is bound to manifest. Certainly in our game when we did the "ride off into the sunset" piece at the end it was reaching a point where it would have been hard to continue play in an interesting way, but those last adventures were still quite fun! 4e is interesting in that it has more scalable mechanics that let the GM continue to run things right up into a pretty gonzo epic tier of play, the FitD engine definitely 'tops out' before it gets that far. I'm not sure if there is really a dice pool system that can handle that full range.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9315681, member: 82106"] Right, something like the equipment costs in AD&D takes effect basically once, at level 1 when you roll up your PC. You get some random amount of gold and part of the 'survive level 1' filter is to allocate your gold pieces intelligently in order to end up with a good enough AC and the optimum equipment to survive whatever the apparent challenge is. Then maybe you play a bit of a resource game for the first couple of adventures where your supplies might 'run out', or if you get a bit lucky you might hire a few minions to up your survival odds. Given that the GM MUST deliver several 1000 GP if the party is to advance (if you play by the stock rules) then by level 2 or so everyone will be in plate armor, decked with shields, helmets, auxiliary missile weapons, healing potions, etc. as required. IME at that point mundane equipment was relegated to a sort of irrelevant zone on your character sheet where it was just assumed you restocked anything you actually bothered to use up in play without needing to actually go through the motions. But, like most trad sim subsystems it would potentially raise its head periodically. The GM could, in the midst of some epic journey or something, suddenly spring 'Wilderness Survival Guide' on the party and insist on punishing them for not packing 4 large tents, firewood, rain gear, etc. There was also kind of a latent almost TB2-like survival game that COULD theoretically be enacted with rules like that, if the GM wanted to completely rework money and XP (2e does this, but oddly also elides most of the survival type rules). It isn't a very functional subsystem though, clearly more suited to use as a casual GM gotcha mechanism as opposed to a real hard sub-game. The only game I remember playing any of that actually has serious survivalist sim rules is Aftermath. That was not really a particularly fun game though IME. I would say, in terms of Neo-Trad games, you would be unlikely to see these sorts of subsystems deployed. It would be a lot more likely to see more abstract ones along the lines of BitD's loadout system. [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] I actually liked the way BitD kind of veers neo-tradish towards the end. I think you COULD push back on that, but it would necessitate kind of just going beyond the formal resolution system. Still, the characters get pretty distinctive and well-defined at a certain point such that some element of character-as-envisaged driving of play is bound to manifest. Certainly in our game when we did the "ride off into the sunset" piece at the end it was reaching a point where it would have been hard to continue play in an interesting way, but those last adventures were still quite fun! 4e is interesting in that it has more scalable mechanics that let the GM continue to run things right up into a pretty gonzo epic tier of play, the FitD engine definitely 'tops out' before it gets that far. I'm not sure if there is really a dice pool system that can handle that full range. [/QUOTE]
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