Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Are Traps For?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9273756" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I don't see how you <em>didn't</em>, which is exactly my point. There are other ways to put out even a small fire. Sometimes people can get <em>really</em> creative with that. I mean, for goodness' sake, you literally take me to task for such thinking in this very post.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And I'm telling you that "common, basic ways to do things" BECOME "Only One Specific Thing" way, way, way, way, way too often. As in almost all the time when people make attritional traps.</p><p></p><p>Inventing crappy gotcha examples like "sure you could turn back time!!!" is bad argumentation practice and I will not dignify it with a response beyond this sentence. It is <em>not</em> true that "nearly all" of these other things are impractical or impossible (also...impossible is much stronger than impractical, so "or at least impossible" is a bit confusing here.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not at all. While MacGyver gets some flak for straining the bounds of logic, the old joke about solving every problem in the universe with some chewing gum and baling wire or the like, there is a <em>shocking</em> amount that a person with little more than the clothes on their back, the random stuff that happens to be in their environment, and a bit of skill can do. It is precisely this thinking--that "an individual in plain clothing can't do much"--which leads to traps designed to be solved in only one or two ways. And then that cashes out as one of two consequences almost every time this happens: either they just <em>happen</em> to have the way(s) it can be solved furnished by the environment, reducing the trap to little better than "insert tab A into hole B," or you just can't find the way(s) in the environment at all...making the trap insoluble.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you been inside most pyramid structures? They don't generally have water <strong>inside</strong> them, even when they're built in jungles. Stone tends to be <em>fairly</em> good at keeping water out. The only way water gets in is, y'know, the pyramid is <em>broken</em> and water got in that way. At which point you aren't talking about being inside a pyramid. You're talking about being in a wet place (like a jungle).</p><p></p><p>The example as given is straightforward. Actually <em>inside</em> an ancient pyramid, not "under the shattered awning of what was once a pyramid and is now exposed to the world," water is <em>generally</em> going to be quite scarce, unless you carry it inside.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not at all. That's like saying that a chess game is made of hundreds of finger movements. You've removed too much important context.</p><p></p><p>At the scale you're talking about, attritional traps are <em>tiny</em> problems. As in, things that will almost guaranteed be forgotten between one session and the next if they were avoided. The only real effect they can possibly have is if you paid some cost (HP, resources, a hireling, whatever), and it's the <em>cost</em> that is memorable, not the trap itself. The cost could have been anything. Such traps are basically MacGuffins; it literally doesn't matter what shape they take, because the impact is essentially always the same (nothing, or a resource spent.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>When did I ever say otherwise?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Such as? This frankly sounds like you're wanting to imply things without saying them outright.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9273756, member: 6790260"] I don't see how you [I]didn't[/I], which is exactly my point. There are other ways to put out even a small fire. Sometimes people can get [I]really[/I] creative with that. I mean, for goodness' sake, you literally take me to task for such thinking in this very post. And I'm telling you that "common, basic ways to do things" BECOME "Only One Specific Thing" way, way, way, way, way too often. As in almost all the time when people make attritional traps. Inventing crappy gotcha examples like "sure you could turn back time!!!" is bad argumentation practice and I will not dignify it with a response beyond this sentence. It is [I]not[/I] true that "nearly all" of these other things are impractical or impossible (also...impossible is much stronger than impractical, so "or at least impossible" is a bit confusing here.) Not at all. While MacGyver gets some flak for straining the bounds of logic, the old joke about solving every problem in the universe with some chewing gum and baling wire or the like, there is a [I]shocking[/I] amount that a person with little more than the clothes on their back, the random stuff that happens to be in their environment, and a bit of skill can do. It is precisely this thinking--that "an individual in plain clothing can't do much"--which leads to traps designed to be solved in only one or two ways. And then that cashes out as one of two consequences almost every time this happens: either they just [I]happen[/I] to have the way(s) it can be solved furnished by the environment, reducing the trap to little better than "insert tab A into hole B," or you just can't find the way(s) in the environment at all...making the trap insoluble. Have you been inside most pyramid structures? They don't generally have water [B]inside[/B] them, even when they're built in jungles. Stone tends to be [I]fairly[/I] good at keeping water out. The only way water gets in is, y'know, the pyramid is [I]broken[/I] and water got in that way. At which point you aren't talking about being inside a pyramid. You're talking about being in a wet place (like a jungle). The example as given is straightforward. Actually [I]inside[/I] an ancient pyramid, not "under the shattered awning of what was once a pyramid and is now exposed to the world," water is [I]generally[/I] going to be quite scarce, unless you carry it inside. Not at all. That's like saying that a chess game is made of hundreds of finger movements. You've removed too much important context. At the scale you're talking about, attritional traps are [I]tiny[/I] problems. As in, things that will almost guaranteed be forgotten between one session and the next if they were avoided. The only real effect they can possibly have is if you paid some cost (HP, resources, a hireling, whatever), and it's the [I]cost[/I] that is memorable, not the trap itself. The cost could have been anything. Such traps are basically MacGuffins; it literally doesn't matter what shape they take, because the impact is essentially always the same (nothing, or a resource spent.) When did I ever say otherwise? Such as? This frankly sounds like you're wanting to imply things without saying them outright. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Are Traps For?
Top